posted 12-10-2001 02:41 PM               

The bit about not being able to travel to tourneys is unfortunate. That's a condition for mastery that isn't part of the game rules. I wish it weren't an issue, but the reality of competitive gaming is that you have to be able and willing to travel of you want to reach that highest level of play.

As for being a scrub, you can't be a newbie forever. At some level, you become proficient enough to dominate scrubs. This doesn't make you a master, but you're certainly not a scrub at that point. It's the difference between random gameplay, controlled gameplay, and directed gameplay.

posted 12-10-2001 03:50 PM               

But again, a lot of the game is using assists. Just like a lot of Super Turbo Street Fighter is throwing. But assists actually ADD variety since they allow you to attack in parallel. You control your own character's actions, PLUS you can do anohter attack at the very same time with another character. That opens the doors wide open for crazy combos, traps, rushdown patterns, etc. The game would be more shallow without them.

Sure, the game has problems, cable's super and Magneto in general being way up there. But assists? Try picking on something else.

As Callahan pointed out, I did give two definitions of scrub. If you're talking about the common slang of "person who sucks at something," it's better to use a qualifying adjective or else everyone in the world is a scrub. So this guy is a "Starcraft scrub" or a "parallel parking scrub" or whatever. If you're using the other definition of player who is trapped in his own made-up rules (probably more appropriate, actually) then you shouldn't have trouble finding non-scrubs. Just go to the finals of any major tournament of a popular game. I'll resist the urge to name drop.

Anyway, this discussion isn't getting anywhere at all.

posted 12-10-2001 08:26 PM               

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However, it sounds to me that if assists are so powerful, then the game ends up being about who can execute assists better.

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I wish it weren't an issue, but the reality of competitive gaming is that you have to be able and willing to travel of you want to reach that highest level of play.

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I don't see what MvC2's emphasis on assists has anything to do with anything.

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The game would be more shallow without them.

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But assists? Try picking on something else.

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If you're using the other definition of player who is trapped in his own made-up rules (probably more appropriate, actually) then you shouldn't have trouble finding non-scrubs.

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Just shut up already. If you don't like the game, then don't play it. It's that simple. You're wasting everyone's time with your paper-thin arguments. Go play PJ against the computer or something.

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Go play PJ against the computer or something

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posted 12-10-2001 10:46 PM               

I understand u dont like Mvc2........but the reaons your giving just shows what sirlin is talking about.
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"Do you think Marvel vs Capcom 2 is a problem game? It has plenty of infinites."
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Now if u played mvc2 you would know that there is only like a hanful of infintes that work in actual play.Magneto,Blackheart,ironman/warmachine,cyclops,and storm(the one on sentinel).
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"Cables infinite is just a joke, it's way to easy to do. Hyper viper beam in the air, land, jump, Hyper viper beam in the air, land, jump exc..."
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Now you saying cable has an infinite just by doing 3xahvb tells me u dont know what an infinte is.An infinite in the marvel games are a repeated pattern that DOES NOT HAVE SUPERS in them.
---------------------------------------------"Dude, you're not comprehinding it.
Marvel vs Capcom 2 is ALL assists, just watch the replays of the "pros" games, they use assists ALL THE TIME. If you dissagree with this, you've got serious mental problems. It's pretty much a newbie game, so the tournament is just as newbie."
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Dude,I think your not comprehending it.The assit in Mvc2 is part of the engine.If you dont use the assit then you are not really playing the game.Once again if you played this game you would know that assit play a very important role.
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"Who can execute assists better? The expert games are just about assists. They run away and hit the assist button, that easy."
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Oh is that so?? Since its so easy go enter a Mvc2 tourny since its that easy to win...esp since your using Blackheart.
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"Like I said before, you don't have to go to a tourney to be the best. Some little kid sitting at home, not worrying about some stupid tournament COULD be the best. If you go to a tournament, that doesn't make you good. The best players might not even go to a tournament. I don't know why that's so hard to understand."
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I think its hard for you to understand.Lets just say yo are the best yet you dont goto tournies to show your skills.Then you are just wasting your skills if you dont enter compititions.Its like this in anything competive...if you dont prove yourself then your pretty much wasting your time.
-------------------------------------------"So the streetfighter games without assists were shallow? They were actually fun, and they took skill. Marvel vs Capcom just has a bunch of BS, infinite combo's, and assists, it's stupid."
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You fail to realize two things:#1 Mvc2 is not a streetfighter game its a vs. series game.#2 Mvc2 is not one on ne......its 3 on 3.Mvc2 is a team game thats the reason the have assit,dhc,etc.

Further more......now you my not be "scrub" but your sounding like the "scrubs" Sirlin is talking.All you do is complain about assit and infinites Mvc2 yet you havent even played the game at the highest levels.And whats this bs about no timer?......that will kill any fighting game.

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There is no need to fear him for the Xecutioner is the beginning........and the end
-Xecutioner-

posted 12-11-2001 07:23 AM               

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That doesn't take skill, that takes a cheap assist, with a cheap character.

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OMG dude you just said "cheap"! That makes you a scrub !

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Oh is that so?? Since its so easy go eer a Mvc2 tourny since its that easy to win...esp since you Blackheart.

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Can ya please clarify that a little bit more? I didnt catch all that! Thank you!

Esp since you Blackheart????

posted 12-11-2001 07:25 AM               

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Now if u played mvc2 you would know that there is only like a hanful of infintes that work in actual play.Magneto,Blackheart,ironman/warmachine,cyclops,and storm(the one on sentinel).

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Now you saying cable has an infinite just by doing 3xahvb tells me u dont know what an infinte is.An infinite in the marvel games are a repeated pattern that DOES NOT HAVE SUPERS in them.

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Dude,I think your not comprehending it.The assit in Mvc2 is part of the engine.If you dont use the assit then you are not really playing the game.Once again if you played this game you would know that assit play a very important role.

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Oh is that so?? Since its so easy go eer a Mvc2 tourny since its that easy to win...esp since you Blackheart.

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I think its hard for you to understand.Lets just say yo are the best yet you dont goto tournies to show your skills.Then you are just wasting your skills if you dont enter compititions.Its like this in anything competive...if you dont prove yourself then your pretty much wasting your time.

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You fail to realize two things:#1 Mvc2 is not a streetfighter game its a vs. series game.#2 Mvc2 is not one on ne......its 3 on 3.Mvc2 is a team game thats the reason the have assit,dhc,etc.

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Further more......now you my not be "scrub" but your sounding like the "scrubs" Sirlin is talking.All you do is complain about assit and infinites Mvc2 yet you havent even played the game at the highest levels.

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And whats this bs abouno timer?......that will kill any fighting game.

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posted 12-11-2001 11:11 AM               

Saying you can beat all challengers is different from actually travelling to a tourney and beating all challengers. Talk is cheap; plane tix are not. It's a case of putting your money where your mouth is. Hold your own tourney locally. The problem is you can't just declare yourself the best. Other people have to validate that.

posted 12-11-2001 01:01 PM               

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I don't see the problem with that. It's only a problem if you can't (or are unwilling to) win by taking advantage of the ways in which the game is broken

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Hold your own tourney locally. The problem is you can't just declare yourself the best. Other people have to validate that.

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posted 12-11-2001 01:42 PM               

As for mastery of a broken game (MvC2), that doesn't require much skill, does it? If using assists isn't your idea of fun gameplay, then you probably won't enjoy trying to play it competitively.

I as I see it, Sirlin's main point is that people will take advantage of loophole when playing a broken game. If you don't recognize that, you're doing yourself a disservice when trying to compete. It isn't right, wrong, or necessarily even fun. It's just a fact of the competitive environment that many newbies overlook.

posted 12-11-2001 02:33 PM               

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Just keep in mind that you need to have a way to verify your skill. Your friend did it by providing a machine and schooling the wannabes.

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posted 12-11-2001 02:41 PM               

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If using assists isn't your idea of fun gameplay, then you probably won't enjoy trying to play it competitively.

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posted 12-12-2001 01:50 PM               

First off, this is not a Street Fighter game. It's a Versus Game, and the Marvel Characters pretty much dominate it. If you don't like it, tough shit, little man, that's just the way it is. Stop crying about it and go home and do whatever it is you do in your spare time away from the computer.

Secondly, you bitch about the many broken things about MvC2. Every game's been broken in some way that I can think of. Oh, what's that, my crouching strong button is wearing out from too much use? Oh, wait, I can only use three or four characters to win? Yay, I got two hypers before you did! Look at the screen! Everyone remembers the Marvel machine nicknamed Infinite: The Game. Oh, go ahead and attack me...I've got V-ism, sucker!

Whine whine whine. You're pretty bitter, sounds to me like you've got your ass handed to you on a silver platter by anyone who took the time to try and figure out the game.

And games are just for fun? So is chess..but it's rarely any fun when you get to high levels of seriously competitive play. Any game that people make really competitive loses a lot of the inherent fun, but it adds a lot more. No one's asking you to like MvC2. Infinites are cheap? What infinites are you talking about, exactly, that are full life? I'd much rather be hit with a Magneto infinite than a Shockwave combo..it does pathetic damage. Oh, what's that, Hyper-grav Magnetic tempest does so much damage, whine whine? ~cough~ Mash ~cough~ Oh no, I'm free. Cable's cheap? Oh my god, anyone with an air dash can beat me...AAAGH!

And you whine about calling assists over and over and over. Well, any SF game you play is about repetition, and the VS series are no exception. If you find a tactic that works very well, you keep doing it until someone finds a way around it. Then you modify your tactic. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So if you don't like the game, don't play it, don't whine and cry and tear like a baby. Go away and stop bothering people who actually take the time to learn games, instead of imagining that what they know is what's good and what everyone else does is cheap.

Moron.