posted 12-14-2001 12:03 PM               

anyway, my idea of high-level play is maxing out your chances of winning by doing anything and everything you can do without limiting yourself (i.e., by giving yourself stupid rules like 'not abusing assists' or 'no infinites'). 99% of high-level competition players will agree with me.

and why would you play for any reason other than to win? don't say for fun either, because if you only wanted to play for fun, you wouldn't be on these forums using precious time arguing about a game you only play for fun.

if you don't know or haven't experienced true high-level competition in mvc2, then you really can't have anything credible to say about it. you can have your personal opinion about it like what was said earlier, but that's about it.

fact: mvc2 has been the most popular capcom fighting game ever since it's been out and as viscant said, still outdoing cvs2's popularity.

how do you explain that?
hella people like it = the game must be good.

ok that's all i have to say. no sense arguing and name-calling w/ people who can't make valid arguments.

ps - do you know what shoryuken.com is? if you did, you would know viscant is a top-rated mvc2 player who consistently places top 5 and even placed 3rd at B5 (yea, that one national tournament where all the top players from all over the US competed in).

posted 12-14-2001 01:43 PM               

It's easy to say that if game breaking things exist that the game is broken and just don't play it, but what if the game is very good other than 1 really broken aspect?

posted 12-14-2001 02:08 PM               

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I love how when someone doesn't have an appropriate reply to facts they just resort to name calling. The internet is a wonderful place indeed.

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There IS a proper definition of what an infinite is and what it isn't. AGSF2 (I can't believe I just referenced that place) during the years and years that it was trying to make an FAQ had the proper definition of an infinite in all the early stages of the FAQ because everybody could agree on what it was. You can't use meter for it to be considered an infinite. Case in point. You put Cable out first. When the announcer says fight, then infinite me. What's that? You can't do it. You don't have the meter to do it. Therefore, it's not an infinite.
This is all pretty common sense stuff...

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A3 was a better game.

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But it wasn't a very popular game at any stage in it's life for the simple reason that it wasn't a very good game.

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I haven't seen the final version of PJ in all the times I've been to arcades, but I know that in the beta version that was at SHGL (in addition to having the rooftop glitch) almost every character had an infinite that was just doing ground chain over and over, crouch cancelling the last hit.

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Commando is a reflex driven character. If you don't have great reflexes, you won't win with him. Even if you ARE Alex though...Commando is still not worth much. If I have a team like say...Doom/Storm/Sentinel (one of my business teams), and you have someone/someone/commando, all I do is I mentally think to myself. "OK...if I don't try to kill Commando, all I have to do is make sure I have either 40% life left with Storm or Doom or 25% life left with Sentinel when Commando comes in and I'm still winning". It's true...a full life Commando is not worth 1/2 of what a real top tier character is worth. He has a great assist and people will use him for the assist. But if he gets snapped in, or has to fight at the end...he'll get dusted.

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Iron Man does not have a very good assist and he's not a very good character either.

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Iron Man loses for free to Commando, Sentinel, Doom, Storm, Cyclops, Spiral, Iceman, Strider, etc, etc.

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I can go on if you'd like, but my point is made.

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He has 2 very average assists that don't do very much, but his assists don't really dominate.

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Most of the good assists are on the Capcom side.

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They had to notice that in almost all of the Marvel games they'd made so far, the Street Fighter characters usually sucked.

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It worked. Cammy, Ken, Commando, etc. all regularly show up on tournament teams even though when they're active point characters they really can't pull their weight.

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Or maybe you play a team like Commando/Cammy/Ken and you bet that the person you're playing is a scrub who doesn't know how to stop assists (hey...like you!!!) and you just run away and call helpers all day.

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FYI, nobody ever does this in tournament play. The simple fact being that running away and calling assists doesn't work. No matter how many names you can think up to call me...it just doesn't work.

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You think it does?

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Prove it.

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Show me some proof.

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You don't have any, so don't waste your time.

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You can check brackets on shoryuken.com if you wish. I'm listed as Viscant (too bad I lost the right to my real name). If you think you could do better than me then you should start going to tournaments. Lots of free money to be had for you if you're that good.

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The best Cammy player in the world (Justin Wong)

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In our tournament matches, he hasn't picked her on me, simply because I know what to do against her.

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You aren't Arturo Sanchez, generally regarded as the best at MvC1.

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You aren't Eddie Lee, Erik Perez or Spider-Dan either.

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There were lots of good MvC1 players who you probably have never played.

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Don't consider yourself the best if you haven't actually played anyone.

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I'm not that good at the game. But in the case you give, if people start calling assists on me, after I kill their assist they'll only have *2* characters and I'll still have *3*. I'm not that good, but if people want to give me that kind of a handicap, I'll take it every time.

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If you just sit and block when people call assists over and over and then go on the internet and whine about it...well...that's your fault isn't it.

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You're full of crap", basically I guess I pity you.

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If you think MvC1 was actually a good game and you think MvC2 is all about assists then it's obvious you haven't played anyone who knows what they're doing.

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That's too bad...playing fighting games against good competition is really fun. I hope someday you get to experience that.

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Ok, I'm not gonna bother with this next newb. Except for...

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hella people like it = the game must be good.

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ok that's all i have to say. no sense arguing and name-calling w/ people who can't make valid arguments.

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do you know what shoryuken.com is? if you did, you would know viscant is a top-rated mvc2 player who consistently places top 5 and even placed 3rd at B5 (yea, that one national tournament where all the top players from all over the US competed in)

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posted 12-14-2001 02:50 PM               

If you aren't going to go by tournament results of an international tournament with 350 people, including many (even most) of the best players in the world, then I don't know what you are going to go by. Apparently you and your 2 friends on your dreamcast is a better measuring stick for you.

Calling people names doesn't help your case much either. And neither does disputing Viscant's tournament record. I was at B5 and personally watched him trounce a number of top players.

Shadyk is also in the elite circle, but rather than try to learn from them, you just swear and say they don't know what they're talking about, when they clearly know exactly what they are talking about. Getting tips from them should be an honor.

You certainly aren't acting in the spirit of this site, and I've had about enough of it. Even if you were right about...whatever it is you're still arguing about...there is no need to flame over it when a simple debate would suffice.

This is a site about game design intended for other professional or aspiring game designers, and you're not contributing anything at all to that end.

posted 12-14-2001 03:44 PM               

I will pay for your trip to California and back, and you can play Viscant. If he wins I want double my money back, and you can give some money to Vis as well. If *you* win you get a free trip and I'll give you and extra $100 on top of that. We can negotatiate the numbers if you'd like.

So, looks like a free trip and money in the bank for you, huh? As Sirlin pointed out, tournament results are not 100% accurate, but they are better than anything else. I think anyone with a brain would agree to this, and this seems to be a pretty generally agreed upon notion in all other competitive arenas. I can't remember the last time the World Series Rings were given to a team from Nebraska who played locally but claimed to be really good...can you?

Finally, an "infinite" is infinite. NOT "repetitive." That is not opinion, that is the English language. Infinite means infinite...it does not mean "really long."

Did you know that in EVERY SF2 game Ryu has an "infinite" that consists of three low shorts? Yep, that's a repetitve unblockable string of attacks...hey everyone, infinity actually equals 3...won't all the math people be surprised!! Hey man, you threw me twice in a row...stop with that infinite crap already!

posted 12-14-2001 05:54 PM               

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If you aren't going to go by tournament results of an international tournament with 350 people, including many (even most) of the best players in the world, then I don't know what you are going to go by.

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Apparently you and your 2 friends on your dreamcast is a better measuring stick for you.

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Calling people names doesn't help your case much either.

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And neither does disputing Viscant's tournament record.

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Shadyk is also in the elite circle, but rather than try to learn from them, you just swear and say they don't know what they're talking about, when they clearly know exactly what they are talking about.

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Getting tips from them should be an honor.

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Even if you were right about...whatever it is you're still arguing about...there is no need to flame over it when a simple debate would suffice.

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I will pay for your trip to California and back, and you can play Viscant. If he wins I want double my money back, and you can give some money to Vis as well. If *you* win you get a free trip and I'll give you and extra $100 on top of that. We can negotatiate the numbers if you'd like.

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So, looks like a free trip and money in the bank for you, huh? As Sirlin pointed out, tournament results are not 100% accurate, but they are better than anything else. I think anyone with a brain would agree to this, and this seems to be a pretty generally agreed upon notion in all other competitive arenas. I can't remember the last time the World Series Rings were given to a team from Nebraska who played locally but claimed to be really good...can you?

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Finally, an "infinite" is infinite. NOT "repetitive." That is not opinion, that is the English language. Infinite means infinite...it does not mean "really long."

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Did you know that in EVERY SF2 game Ryu has an "infinite" that consists of three low shorts? Yep, that's a repetitve unblockable string of attacks...hey everyone, infinity actually equals 3...won't all the math people be surprised!! Hey man, you threw me twice in a row...stop with that infinite crap already!

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posted 12-16-2001 05:47 AM               

"Awww but Courage started it..."

That's right, I started the insulting! I never made any claim to be mature...ShadyK, Viscant, GummyDrop, Clockw0rk...these guys are too elite and cool and whatnot to resort to insults...but I've got nothing but love for witty repartee, you ass-sniffing cum-guzzling cunt cake! I hope the cacodaemonic legions swarm your house and take turns piercing your anus with their many-pronged 3 feet pricks, thorned with the razor-sharp cuticles of the mad Arab Alhazred! May your soul be forever eviscerated within the livid confines of a Lovecraftian Hell! Die. Die. Fucking rot in hell and burn....I yearn only to smell the stinking bubbling flesh peel off your skin in blackened chunks.

Ahhhhhh. I love chicken.

Stronzo capoera, el foreonza. Bastard. Die!

Your insults are weaker than my grandmother's admonitions to stop drinking all the milk. You're a rookie..if you're even serious! And I find it hard to believe anyone who claims to be a hard-core gameplayer would never have heard of Alex whats-his-name Valle, or Volcano-err Viscant, or that EXTREME NEWBIE SHADYK, YOU HEAR ME LONG TRAN!? FEAR ME!

How do you know Viscant lives right next to a tournament!? You've never even fucking heard of him, dipshit, remember? Or is your story getting twisted around your scrawny little neck? For all you know Viscant lives in Anchorage, Alaska. And ShadyK could live with Clockw0rk in their secret love jungle, the Galapagos Islands, and yet still own bedroom scrubs like yourselves whenever he takes the fancy. Fag.

You sit at home and masturbate, thinking of Kevin Spacey. Don't fucking deny it. To quote Duc Do: "Everyday...everyday."

Lick the anal-droppings of a zebra, then imbibe the regurgitations of a Morrocan orangutan down the cum-guzzling shoot in your homosexual throat normal people call an esophagus.

I eagerly await your reply, you shit-stuffing ass-poking anal-licking salad tosser!

Dicebant mihi sodales...meas cureas aliquar!

Moron.

posted 12-16-2001 06:06 AM               

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And I find it hard to believe anyone who claims to be a hard-core gameplayer would never have heard of Alex whats-his-name Valle, or Volcano-err Viscant, or that EXTREME NEWBIE SHADYK

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posted 12-16-2001 06:23 AM               

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Originally posted by You're full of crap:

They play the game, they're not in the game.

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I'm amazed you managed to grasp this simple concept. Maybe your brains aren't composed entirely of rotting donkey feces....

And Margalis...does that offer extend to me too? I want a free trip to San Diego, or SHGL, or wherever it is Viscant and ShadyK play!

I'll talk mad shit on them that I can't back up from the safety of my room! Uh..such as..uh..

Viscant, you may have taken 3rd at B5 the biggest Street Fighter tournament the US has ever seen, but that doesn't mean shit to me because I wasn't there, and the fact that you've never heard of me merely indicates the serious level in which I play!

ShadyK, you are a newbie..I've seen your ShadyK vs SonyTony matches...do you think I missed the "12 wins" or whatever on SonyTony's side!?? Ahahahaa! You tried to hide it..don't deny it!

GummyDrop, your boyfriend is losing his touch!

There...I talked mad shit..offer me a free trip. And when I get there and can't back it up..I'll disappear into the night like the Scarlet Pimpernickel!

Aaahahaaahah!

posted 12-16-2001 09:37 AM               

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There...I talked mad shit..offer me a free trip. And when I get there and can't back it up..I'll disappear into the night like the Scarlet Pimpernickel!

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I'm gonna have a tourney in my backyard with a couple of friends, if I win, that means I'm the best in the world.
"OH, you couldn't show up? TOO BAD, I'M AUTOMATICLY BETTER THAN YOU!
YOU WEREN'T AT A BIG TOURNEY THAT I WAS AT AND I GOT 120TH PLACE? YOU SUCK SHUT UP YOU SUCK SHUT UP YOU SUCK SHUT UP YOU SUCK SHUT UP.
YOU THINK THAT CHARACTER'S GOOD? THAT JUST PROVES YOUR TRAILER PARK WHITE TRASH!
WHAT DID I EAT FOR BREAKFAST EXACTLY 2 MONTHS AGO TO THE DAY? OH GEE, YOU DON'T KNOW? THAT MEANS I'M AUTOMATICLY BETTER THAN YOU AT EVERY GAME YOU'VE EVER PLAYED!
YOU DON'T KNOW WHO ALEX VILLAKOWSKI IS? DIDN'T YOU SEE HIS NAME WRITTEN IN BIG LETTERS ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD DURING THE SUPER BOWL? WHAT ROCK HAVE YOU BEEN UNDER?
YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT VOLCANO GOT 3RD PLACE AT THE BIGGEST TOURNAMENT THAT YOU WERNE'T AT? YOU SHOULD BE CRUCIFIED!"

[This message has been edited by You're full of crap (edited 12-16-2001).]

posted 12-16-2001 04:12 PM               

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Originally posted by You're full of crap:

I was serious.
Send me the money, the plane tickets or food stamps, or whatever it is you use. I'll go own a couple of newbs.
Courage the cowardly dog fails to realize that a tournament doesn't mean nothing. It only means that the winner is better than anyone that showed up to play.

I'm gonna have a tourney in my backyard with a couple of friends, if I win, that means I'm the best in the world.
"OH, you couldn't show up? TOO BAD, I'M AUTOMATICLY BETTER THAN YOU!
YOU WEREN'T AT A BIG TOURNEY THAT I WAS AT AND I GOT 120TH PLACE? YOU SUCK SHUT UP YOU SUCK SHUT UP YOU SUCK SHUT UP YOU SUCK SHUT UP.
YOU THINK THAT CHARACTER'S GOOD? THAT JUST PROVES YOUR TRAILER PARK WHITE TRASH!
WHAT DID I EAT FOR BREAKFAST EXACTLY 2 MONTHS AGO TO THE DAY? OH GEE, YOU DON'T KNOW? THAT MEANS I'M AUTOMATICLY BETTER THAN YOU AT EVERY GAME YOU'VE EVER PLAYED!
YOU DON'T KNOW WHO ALEX VILLAKOWSKI IS? DIDN'T YOU SEE HIS NAME WRITTEN IN BIG LETTERS ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD DURING THE SUPER BOWL? WHAT ROCK HAVE YOU BEEN UNDER?
YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT VOLCANO GOT 3RD PLACE AT THE BIGGEST TOURNAMENT THAT YOU WERNE'T AT? YOU SHOULD BE CRUCIFIED!"

[This message has been edited by You're full of crap (edited 12-16-2001).]

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That was a juicy post, but you forgot to address my love of chicken. I'm ashamed to call you an asshole.