posted 12-03-2003 05:14 PM            

Part I
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Smoke and Mirrors:
Games are about smoke and mirrors. The idea is to fool the player into thinking that the world is vast and full of things to explore. The reality is that there aren't enough resources to implement a real world, so the trick is to "nudge" the player along in the correct directions. One example is GTA3. The world is "huge" and "full of stuff". Or is it. It's a big illusion; turn your back, and the car that was there a second ago isn't there anymore. In fact, one of the reasons that GTA 3 has no multiplayer is because few of the non-player objects are persistent. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Attention to detail:
Games show certain things in great details. The idea is that things which the player sees a lot should be detailed. The player avatar often has the most polygons and best textures. Other things can have less detail and not affect gameplay. This makes sense from a development standpoint, but how does it affect the gameplay? This can become a consistency issue, which I'll talk about later.

Empty space == wasted space?:
Why does Wind Waker have so much empty space? There are a number of reasons, not the least of which is to make the game appear more "vast" and "epic" (smoke and mirrors). Alternately, there's this idea that unless you know where something is, you're not likely to find it by accident.... but you might. That's fun. Also, by making you sail everywhere, you learn player skill (controlling the boat) which can give you personal satisfaction of gaining proficiency. However, the "tedium" arguement is valid. This is like those games where you can't skip the cutscenes. At some point any repetitive activity/scene loses its charm. Why there aren't more warp gates is beyond me. Save-point systems just make this worse, since you spend more time getting to the challenge than trying to defeat it.

Emergent vs. scripted:
There's nothing wrong with scripting. Some of my favorite games are full of scripted sequences. However, there's something to be said for emergent gameplay that comes from building rich environments. Plus, it's annoying that the game will force you to find a key to unlock certain doors and not even give you the option to pick the lock bash the door down, or blow it open. However, it's a double edged sword. For example, one recent video clip of Metroid Prime Done Quick shows a player using, er, "exploits" to bypass portions of the game (e.g. repeated ball-bombing to climb walls). Level designers must be aware that the player will try to use a loophole if you leave one there. Again, there's the designer vs. player mentality at work. You want the player to do certain things, while making the player think that there are "infinite" possibilities. Sure, you can fight, or sneak, or talk your way past an in-game puzzle, but what if you want to do something completely different? Emergent games would theoretically let you do this, but trying to model a complete world is almost sheer lunacy.

[EDIT] fixed some typos

posted 12-03-2003 05:32 PM            

Player expectation vs. consistency:
Consistency and expectation are things that have to be considered when creating a game environment. Why is the inside of a house much bigger than the outside would indicate? Why are capital ships only four times the size of fighter-craft? Why can't my character jump up onto a 2 foot high ledge? Why can a skater grind on some fence rails but not others? Why can enemies kick grenades back, but you can't?

Does it make the game better?:
Does all that extra stuff in the level actually make it any better, or is it just wasted developer time? Is it better to have more sparse levels, or fewer rich levels? What is the least amount of "environment" needed to play the game? In an RPG, the game is almost all about character interaction and the like. In fact, combat is often abstracted out into a separate screen where terrain is irrevelant. There, the environment is just for flavor in many cases. The question is whether the game would be improved if the environment had a real effect on gameplay? Why is it that games have ice levels and jungle levels and lava levels and sewer levels? It's soooo cliche, annd yet designers put this stuff in anyway. Why? Does it really add to the experience?

- Alan

[EDIT] added more content

posted 12-03-2003 11:47 PM               

But what about other genres? Rocket jumping in quake is an emergent, physics-type...er...thing. lol. But are there any games about which we can say "this game does a great job of supporting emergent gameplay rather than scripted gameplay"? The obvious answer would be simulation games (Sims, anything by Sid Meier), but I was hoping for a more...action-oriented answer. Simulation games are usually too slow for me.

And come on Itsatrap, do you need to ask why every game has a snow level? Everyone is looking to solve these two problems:

1) How do I, the designer, come up with different areas in the game with different physics rules and gameplay elements? The reason for and existence of these differences must be obvious to the player.
2) How can we show off some technology with atmosphereic effects?

So everyone ends up doing the slippery snow level, the hot area you take damage for being in unless you have armor/ring of fire protect/whatever, the jungle level where you swing from vine to vine but have to have poison kits for those nasty snakes, and so on. All those cliches really are good solutions in that they allow new gameplay mechanics that are visually explained by the environment. They are such good answers that everyone uses them in every game and it has become a little ridiculous. I am guilty of it myself, even.

posted 12-04-2003 12:11 PM            

When it comes to fighting games, your GGXX juggle example is probably the closest to what I'm referring to, with negative feedback loops in place of defined behaviors. The problem is that it becomes very difficult to balance emergent play,as the level of complexity goes through the roof as you add more interactions with the environment.

The "snow level" thing is partly a rant about overuse of cliches, but partly a challenge to consider different ways of enhancing gameplay, e.g. through mini-games, etc. Environment certainly affects gameplay in a "snow level", but it's so overdone that it can cheapen the overall experience and potentially interrupt the flow of the game. For a fighting game, it's less of a problem because the environments are discrete and seldom interconnected. However, for something like a shooter or cRPG, you have to make sure that it fits within the overall context or else it feels "gimmicky" and can ruin the immersion.

...and yes, I use "snow", "lava", and "jungle" levels too. :P

posted 01-01-2004 04:50 AM            

I mean, I get nauseous every time I play an FPS and run into one of those swimming levels. Always the same crap. You have XX seconds before you start taking damage from drowning, unless you use some sort of air supply.

Now, wouldn't it be more interesting to include a set of flippers, so you can move around like a dolphin, instead of a slowass human? Wouldn't it be interesting to include a pair of skates on the snow/ice level? Or even ski's. That's the kind of items that usually make things interesting. Like what Sirlin was talking about, the jetpack in that game that I can't remember the name of (I believe it was some Nintendo thingy).

A tradeoff is probably what makes a good game good. Tony Hawk is good because it offers loads of 'items' to do stuff with, even in the older versions. All you got is a skateboard, but there's so many stuff laying around that you can interact with (either to get points, do silly things, score mission points, or open secret areas) that it never bores. I can't remember how many times I've even played that demo for TH2. All you had was one level, but there was always new gaps, tricks, combo's, and other stuff to find out. 'Wow' every time. I briefly played TH4, and yeah, 'Wow' again, since in only that short time of playing, in one level, I saw so many things that only that one level could keep me busy for weeks, with only 1 skater.

I could probably also be busy for weeks with the FPS described above, with a snow level, but this time with several (the more, the better) options at my disposal to use for transportation.

In Wolfenstein, all you do is crawl around in that snow, and ofcourse, swim in the water under the ice, and yada yada.

A bobsled or pair of skates would make things a lot cooler. Just like a motorcycle would be cool in a forest (or one of those flying things from that Return of the Jedi movie).

That is also what makes Battlefield 1942 a good game, I guess, because you can pretty much drive and fly everything. One of the dumbest things in GTA3 was the dodo. It's cool that you can fly around, but this stupid thing (with cutoff wings) is just a frigging bore. It gets tedious to try to get that thing in the air for a decent amount of seconds. The game would be almost the same without it. A REAL plane would make it a lot better. On the other hand, that would probably be impossible because of the level transitions.

Anyway, another example of 'emergent' gameplay, is Postal 2. I love that game. There is so much useless but fun stuff you can do, like trying to build a pyramid of chairs. Or play golf with heads and try to knock them through windows with a shovel. Or luring a bunch of cops with donuts. Or collect cats and then set them loose in the junkyard (where there's, of course, a bunch of dogs). On the other hand, maybe I'm just a sick individual.

Oh!! By the way!! Postal 2 does NOT have a snow level!

posted 01-08-2004 11:52 PM            

Young Link needs to travel only the eastern side. When he finally needs to travel to Lake Hylia, there is a nearby warp which bypasses the field. When he finally needs to travel to the desert, he has already received an Ocarina warp to the desired area.

Adult Link needs to travel the field a few times, but he can gain Epona before those journeys are required. Most reasons actually require Epona. Epona makes field travel fairly quick, and travelling by Epona is still somewhat interesting before the game ends.

Ocarina's vast field gives a sense of scale, and the game is designed so that the field doesn't really become a hinderance. (Unless you fail to get Epona or decide you just have to explore everything as Young Link.)

Wind Waker's vast ocean gives a sense of scale, but the overworld design and sailing system are so poorly handled that travel quickly becomes an unwelcome chore. Conception, implimentation, and execution are all fumbled in nearly every conceivable area in relation to the ocean of Wind Waker. You could easily write an article covering only failures and shortcomings of Wind Waker's ocean.

posted 01-14-2004 05:43 PM               

Er, when I think of games that have excellent emergent AND scripted gameplay: Deus Ex, System Shock 2, No One Lives Forever, No One Lives Forever 2, Half-Life and Grand Theft Auto 3. With each of these I am thinking of the single player game and how enviroment and "AI" trick me into thinking my character have "real" impact on the game. Some of them have a certain cool factor just sitting back and letting stuff happen without lifting a single digital finger, and others for how the scripting fools me into thinking my character is facing off against opponents who "think" and "want to survive".

posted 01-15-2004 09:28 AM            

When you are in town, the level of interactivity is high. You can talk to people, rob anyone you want, go in any house, take almost any items you want (even bowls, spoons, and clothes), get caught by guards. You have missions, goals, but there is so much to do besides that you can play for hours.

posted 01-15-2004 10:06 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Wigmaker:
Then you get out into the world. Although it is a huge world, and extremely varied and interesting, it can also be barren. Many times you will wander around looking for a specific place, finding nothing with nothing to do. Very tedious.

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Good example game, luckily they have ways to aleviate the tedious walking with teleportation spells and scrolls, as well as special teleportation buildings that you need to discover. On top of that, the more you run around, the better your skill gets at it and the faster you go, especially if you pump up the corresponding stat to the running, which there is an incentive to do when you are leveling up because there are extra points on that stat from gaing levels in a certain skill. Then on top of that, there are numerous other spells and skills that aleviate the problem of moving around the map, such as jump and levitate, which as you increase in the level strength of those from use and spell power allow you to hop and fly around the continent at considerable speed, often by passing many terrain features that you would otherwise have to go around. Regarding there being "barren" landscape, if you take a look around, there is almost always a cave, crypt, shipwreck or bizarre building of some sort nearby. About the only barren place I can think of is by going for a swim out in the far reaches of the ocean, and even then you'd be really surprised by what you can find out there. I once found this dwarven city that was mostly sunken, alantis style... I geuss the real problem arises if you are into the whole exploration thing in the first place but it is touted as a First Person RPG after all.

The only things you can't seem to impact is the hard placed items: buildings, water, ground, weather, etc.

Come to think of it, there was a game that tried to make the structures of things have a certain degree greater of changable features, at least in being able to wreck stuff: Red Faction. Though, I am not sure if it met with much financial success in its release but there was certainly enough hype leading up to it.

Morrowind has been fairly successful as sales have gone it seems, if two expansion packs, a special bundled edition, and all the mods for it - thanks to them giving the tweaking tools out with the original game - are any indication of financial success. I think others here would be more knowledgable about how to find sales numbers.

*EDIT: for extra comments on "barren" in Morrowind.

posted 01-21-2004 09:28 PM               

quote:

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Having only recently played Ocarina of Time, I found little issue with Hyrule Field. (Only at the beginning when I thought I would have to travel it constantly.) Perhaps it seemed bigger when the game was initially released?
Young Link needs to travel only the eastern side. When he finally needs to travel to Lake Hylia, there is a nearby warp which bypasses the field. When he finally needs to travel to the desert, he has already received an Ocarina warp to the desired area.

Adult Link needs to travel the field a few times, but he can gain Epona before those journeys are required. Most reasons actually require Epona. Epona makes field travel fairly quick, and travelling by Epona is still somewhat interesting before the game ends.

Ocarina's vast field gives a sense of scale, and the game is designed so that the field doesn't really become a hinderance. (Unless you fail to get Epona or decide you just have to explore everything as Young Link.)

Wind Waker's vast ocean gives a sense of scale, but the overworld design and sailing system are so poorly handled that travel quickly becomes an unwelcome chore. Conception, implimentation, and execution are all fumbled in nearly every conceivable area in relation to the ocean of Wind Waker. You could easily write an article covering only failures and shortcomings of Wind Waker's ocean.

This is bad because sea travel can easily become the majority of the time spent playing the game. (Consider the total time you spent on the ocean if you doubt the prior sentence. Particularly if you did anything optional.)

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First of all, assume that you are using one kind of playing style for both games. I think it's pretty safe to say that most people that are exploring and doing optional stuff in one of these games, will also use this approach in the other game, should they play both. Or in other words, doing optional stuff in OOT will rather greatly increase the time spent on the field, just as doing optional things in WW will increase the time spent on the ocean. Without knowing sirlin, I somehow assume he is the collecting sort of guy, that will try to find all the hidden hearts, slingshot pouch upgrades, and whatnot. As such, I believe he spent a good amount of the total game in Hyrule Field, and finally starting to think that the place is so big, it's a tedious chore to get through (but he does empathize in the article that the ocean is even worse in that respect.)

Plus, while the field in OOT isn't as vast and time-consuming as the ocean in WW, there is actually a game that is released between these two; and that in my opinion makes better use of the "central field/ocean" feature than both of these games; and since I'm (surprise, surprise) talking about Mahjora's Mask, I think we should have a very good subject for comparison. So, allow me:

The Termina Field in itself is, of course, smaller than the OOT. It is also filled with more stuff, and has a big amount of variety in the scenery. That alone makes it more enjoyable to go through, but it is by far not the only deal.

Because even if we should follow the notion of a person going through the game perfectly the first time, you will have to go through the Hyrule Field several times in order to get to the same place we've been before. And what's worse, you will also need to go through several of the "transport screens" (such as the waterfall part on the way to the Zora kingdom) at least twice, and if you're a first-timer, most likely several more times than that. yes, the teleport function eventually patches this problem somewhat, but with only 6 locations, there are still several parts that are left quite alone. The Zoran kingdom, for example, takes time to travel to no matter which warp zone you choose to use. And as adult link, this trip requires going through the Hyrule Field every time, which definetly gets tedious, even with the magic bean flower helping you to the top. Frankly, there isn't much improvement for kid Link, as the warp in the Hyruly Lake either requires the slooow swimming, or taking a pretty long detour over the bridge.
The Gerudo Valley is also requiring you to go through the field every time you want to visit, as the warp zone will only help you get close to the Spirit Temple, not the village. Sure, the trip is shortened with the horse, but for anyone not doing all the right things the first or second time (i.e. quite a good amount of the players), it can still get tedious in the long run.
Finally on the list, we have, in the beginning of the game, the following movement pattern that you have to follow: Do the stuff in Kokiri Forest, get to Hyrule Town and Castle (two places that are quite a bit apart), THEN go back to Kokiri and the Lost Woods, and THEN you're supposed to get to Kakariko Village, which is almost as far from Kokiri's entrance in Hyrule Field as Hyrule Castle is. No horse, no warp fields, just a game that in rather quick succession subjects you to 3 long walks that are necessary in order to get through the plot with. And that is simply without any exploring whatsoever, and assuming you know your way to Hyrule Castle so you don't have to spend one night outside fighting skeletons.

So, it's no wonder OOT gets a mention in having a field that is simply a bit too big, especially when Mahjora's Mask definetly made some improvements on this part:

First of all, they gave you access to warping much sooner. Plus, they increased the number of warp zones, making most places reachable within a minute from the closest warp. This certainly reduced the amount of walking between one place and another.
Also, they brought in extra movement moves (a silly-sounding phrase, but bear with me here) that helped where a horse couldn't. The now functional rabbit mask was a great way of speeding up things that little bit (sometimes the small details can work wonders). Then the Goron roll came along, which would have been great for use in Hyrule Field. And as for the swimming.... GODS, I LOVED the Zora Link for his swimming abilities!!! I spent an hour or so just swimming around, jumping up and down from the water!