Dual Analog Controllers
The other day I had a brief debate with a co-worker when he said the original PlayStation Dual Shock controller was the best game controller of all time. His reasoning was that it introduced the (now standard) right analog stick, as well as extra shoulder buttons (aka trigger buttons). He also added that the controller was very sturdily constructed. He is right on all those counts, but I took a somewhat different stance: that the original PS Dual Shock Controller is, in fact, the worst controller ever.
First of all, it has the absolute worst d-pad ever seen by a first-party controller on any system. The whole concept of replacing the full cross on a d-pad with weird disconnected buttons is just crazy. You might be "used to it" by now, but it's a fundamentally flawed idea. Some games (like fighting games) really need either a full cross or a full circular pad like the Xbox's. There are no games, though, that benefit from the terrible PS d-pad design. The NES, SNES, Saturn, Dreamcast, N64, Xbox, and even the GameCube all have better d-pads. While the PS version is now "the standard" in some sense, it doesn't make it less terrible.
Next, the PS controller added 2 extra shoulder buttons. Shoulder buttons are those annoying hard-to-reach buttons on the top of the controller, for those who don't know. The Saturn used those two buttons on the face of the controller, where I can actually reach them, but the PS's "innovation" was to move perfectly reachable buttons to an annoying place.
The right analog stick is great for games that I like to call "1.5 analog," meaning that character movement is on the left analog stick, and camera adjustment is on the right, but the game is designed so that you mostly use the face buttons on the controller and only occasionally move the camera around. Mario Sunshine, Prince of Persia, Ratchet and Clank, and Grand Theft Auto 3 are some examples. N64 did fine with the little yellow c-buttons in Mario64, Banjo Kazooie, and Donkey Kong 64, but hey, the right analog stick does a little better, I guess.
But the right analog stick also has given rise to most vile of all control schemes: the true dual analog game. This includes first person shooters like Counter-strike, and other such games that are suited to being played on mouse/keyboard, rather than a game controller. Sometime when I wasn't looking, true dual analog fps games on game controllers went from "obviously a terrible idea" to "ok" to "pretty popular." That original PlayStation Dual Shock controller planted the vile seed.
So now I give you the actual greatest controller of all time. Great d-pad. Those extra two buttons aren't obnoxious trigger buttons, but instead are right there on the face. Also, the 6 face buttons are all the same size, and not laid out very "ergonomically." ("Ergonomic" is just a code word for "totally wacky and terrible," I've noticed.) Also, the controller doesn't even have that pesky right analog stick that started the unfortunate trend of dual analog fps games on console. I give you...the Super Pad 8.
Now that's a sexy game pad!
--Sirlin
June 27th, 2004 at 11:54 am
Hey there. Cool addition to an already outstanding site.
What you say about the PS dual analog is absolutely true. My brother and I used to have fits when people would talk about how much they love that thing. It was especially irritating to hear them gushing when the X-box controller was getting slammed so much (not that it’s perfect or anything). I always thought that for fighting games, the Saturn had the best controllers, hands down. Also, you didn’t mention the button labelling on the PS - What is the deal with the circle, square, etc…? So arbitrary and counter-intuitive! With x,y,z,a,b,c,l,r you know where everything is within 3 seconds because a natural order is built in. Only thing I disagree on is the dual analog. I enjoy FPS a bunch and I find that sort of setup vastly superior to the old single stick with side-step controls that you had to deal with.
Thanks!
July 4th, 2004 at 12:51 am
i actually have one of those Super Pad 8s sitting in a dresser drawer with my poor neglected Saturn. It was a good pad.
-pat m.
July 6th, 2004 at 1:43 pm
I consider the GameCube controller to be the best because of the ingenious triangular configuration of the A, X, and Y buttons. I don’t own a GameCube, so the only GCN game I ever play on is Soul Caliber II, during frequent visits to friends’ houses. Based solely on my experiences playing SC2, I must say for 3 buttons to have 7 different combinations (A, X, Y, AX, YX, AY, AYX) that can be easily executed with your thumb is phenomenal.
The PS2 controller, and all other controllers I know of, lack such ease of use. Though I have fingers that would be stereotypically described as a pianist’s, I still find it difficult to reach across the diagonal with my thumb on a PS2 controller and hit two buttons without accidentally hitting a third. Am I just a scrub with a ponderous thumb and no manual dexterity? I’d like to think not. I know what it is to be a world class competitor, though not in Soul Caliber 2, and I believe my experiences have made me able to judge when a problem such as the one I have described above is due to poor controller design as opposed to a failing of mine.
July 8th, 2004 at 9:31 pm
I have liked the psx style of controller for a while, but my friend said he hates it- especially for how tired his hands got after extensive play basically. But to address the points you brought up, I have a different perspective:
>>
First of all, it has the absolute word d-pad ever seen by a first-party controller on any system. The whole concept of replacing the full cross on a d-pad with weird disconnected buttons is just crazy. You
>
it’s a fundamentally flawed idea. Some games (like fighting games) really need either a full cross or a full circular pad like the Xbox’s.
>
There are no games, though, that benefit from the terrible PS d-pad design. The NES, SNES, Saturn, Dreamcast, N64, Xbox, and even the GameCube all have better d-pads. While the PS version is now “the standard” in some sense, it doesn’t make it less terrible.
July 10th, 2004 at 9:29 pm
Sirlin is right. The pad itself may be suitable for a lot of games, 2D fighting games is not one of them. Most of all, some games don’t even support the (too small to use anyway) analog stick, like SFA3 for PS/1. I can play that game for 7 hours on a cabinet, but 5 minutes on the PS/2 controller gives me friggin RSI.
DJS
August 10th, 2004 at 5:54 am
Other details about the PS2 DS controller that proves how crappy it really is:
The analog stick itself is not surprisingly, the most horrible analog stick I’ve been subjected to. The placement is so that I, an adult player, actually have to stretch the thumb to put it properly on. And in addition to this, it seems to have only two movement ratings: Slow and fast. I’ve played Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy X, Jakk II, WRC (first one for PS2), and all of them with the same result. What’s even worse is that slow movement is only possible when you move the stick between 1,1 and 1,2 millimetres away from the center.
And even in games where you hardly use the shoulder buttons, they still keep being irritating because of the design it makes. To anyone still fond of the DS controller, I have a task for you: Take your DS in your hand, and try to find a position for your index and middle finger that isn’t tiring in itself, or that doesn’t make the controller “gnaw” against one of your finger knuckles.
Or, you can take a grip with the left hand, where both fingers are placed on their respective buttons, and the thumb on the analog stick. Now keep your hand in that position and remove the controller from your hand. Does that look like a comfortable position for your hand? Or does it look like you have two fingers in a good grip and two claws sticking out?
Looking at the N64, we have a controller that, while having it’s own problems, at least knew how to make it comfortable when it comes to using the analog stick. The hand just gets into place and stays there, and the stick actually has several different movement ratings. I’ve actually spent hours just moving Link around in his various forms in Mahjora’s Mask, simply because it works so damn well. If only the stick itself was more like the one on the XBox and didn’t “tire out” so soon, I’d be really happy during my N64 days.
December 21st, 2004 at 5:42 pm
I agree with that comment- the analog has the most difficult-to-use sensitivity. I played GTA3 on the computer with a mouse, and then got a PS2 for GTA:SA. The reason I have to redo a mission 99% of the time is because of my problems aiming.
March 27th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
What a load of bull. The PS Dual Analog is the best controller yet. U wasted my time coming to your site to read about a bunch of crap comments. If u play enough games you will be able to understand the reason for the layout and labeling of the PS Dual Analog. Go do your research and get the facts right before jumping to conclusions hastily.
April 15th, 2005 at 6:45 pm
Irony - Spelling “you” as “u”, and then capitalizing it when used at the beginning of a sentence.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:06 am
The dual sticks are perfect for playing Katamari Damacy and We Love Katamari, aka the best and third best games ever created. Other than that, I’ve had to do some crazy uncomfortable things with the DS. To play R&C:UYA, I’ve had to hold R2 to strafe, R1 to shoot, X to jump, left stick to move, and right stick to aim. Not pleasent.
April 19th, 2006 at 1:04 am
Fully agreed. Great article as always ^_^
Two more strikes:-
#1) The vast majority of modern games use the left analogue stick rather than the d-pad for character movement or selection. Yet the symmetrical design of the Dual Shock 2 forces the player stretch her thumb to reach it as the d-pad is in the more neutral comfortable position. All other modern console controllers are comfortably asymmetrical.
#2) Although all of the DS2 buttons are pressure-sensitive, not a one has sufficient travel to make the feature useful, comfortable or provide adequate tactile feedback about how far it is pushed down. Some developers rely on its awkward implementation anyway; others have an archaic limit placed on their design.
Both of these problems stem from Sony’s unwillingness to change the fundamental layout of the controller, which was fine in 1994 but isn’t best suited to the innovations console game input has seen over the last decade. Perhaps they’re worried about alienating players who have become accustomed to it. Unfortunately, the PS3 ‘boomerang’ doesn’t look as if it’s going to change things much >_
April 19th, 2006 at 1:05 am
Ah! Post limits!
To the guy who mentioned movement speed settings:-
Developers can poll the position of the analogue sticks every frame (the 360 controller works almost identically, and I assume that the same goes for the GC pad.) What they choose to do with these data is up to them. In other words, it’s not a problem with the hardware itself.
I assume that FF10 only offers two movement speeds because the developers were still relying the same digital walk/run idea from the SNES and PS1 games. There are many PS2 games that visually demonstrate more than two speeds, e.g. Gitaroo Man.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Besides the fact that I think the Nintendo GC controller was actually the worst controller ever, I do have to disagree with you on a specific point.
I submit that the multiple shoulder buttons was one of the best things that happened to controllers and I am actually fairly upset that the trend has not been repeated by any other console to date. Sure, more buttons on the face are great and all those other things you mentioned about it but you can still (in general) only press 1 button at a time with your thumb. And more importantly than that you can only press a sequence of buttons so fast as well.
So while all these extra buttons are added to the face of the controller to complicate the thumb’s job we still basically have 3 fingers on each hand that aren’t doing anything. I find dual triggers to be the perfect balance between a comfortable grip on the controller and quick access to many buttons. I use 1 finger on each trigger; that is the index and middle finger of each hand; and the pinky and ring finger to grip the err grip. It just seems more natural and logical to assign more buttons to free fingers instead of overtaxing the thumb.
Unfortunately I can already formulate my own rebuttal based on your above article. That is, more shoulder buttons only make any REAL difference in console FPSs. I have to agree with that however I also agree that console FPSs are an unfortunate trend and one of the main reasons that the good ol’ PC market for video games is suffering greatly. But guns aside the extra shoulder buttons were still very well done. Play Fight Night where your thumbs basically remain on the two analog sticks and see how much you use all the shoulder buttons to do other stuff. Or better yet play any classic racing game where your thumb is basically glued to the throttle (X button I would assume) and you still have to shift up and down and look behind you or change view/cut in the turbo/toggle the radio.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:34 pm
I’m not sure about the d-pad being worse than the ‘full circle’-one. I’ve had some PC-Controllers by now and every time the d-pad felt wrong. I assumed it might be because of some PC-specific issue until I got an N64-USB-Adapter. It’s simply hard to feel which direction you’re pressing on that soft and rounded variations that for some reason are popular among PC-Controllers.
About shoulder buttons I do have to agree at least about the left one. Ever since the SNES times I had to map every action I used rather frequently away from the L-Button because it seemed too slow pressing it. It felt ‘unnatural’ for some reason to finish the qcf-combination by pressing L.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:40 pm
I completely agree that the DS is just one awefully uncomfortable way to play games. Add in the fact that they are mostly flimsy and playing through GTA3 once was enough to toast out the buttons, and I do agree with Sirlin on this one.
However, I do not understand why you disagree with the FPS dual analog control scheme. It seems to be the perfect way to play them. As a console gamer frist and PC gamer second, it seems easier to play with the controller than the mouse/keyboard combo. Of course my view is biased, but I do not understand your reasoning behind thinking the FPS on console’s is a bad idea.
July 4th, 2006 at 10:54 am
I have to disagree with your opinion of the extra shoulder buttons, Sirlin. It is very difficult to hold one face button, while timing or just repeatedly hitting another face button. But by simply mapping one of the two buttons to a different finger, you can greatly simplify the the game’s controls.
My point is, that the more a game’s controls are spread out to various fingers, the more button combinations are executable. With the Dual Shock controller, your index fingers each have access to two buttons, while your thumb has four buttons. This way, you don’t have to hop one finger between 6-8 different buttons.
Of course, the whole idea of that layout makes the controller less comfortable to hold. But I think a variation of the standard GameCube controller, with an extra button on each shoulder, would be the new best controller ever. But I don’t mean that stupid Z button right above R. That thing is beyond the boundary set up by the R button. I mean an R2 button that sort of comfortably extends past the first R button, like if the current GC shoulder buttons were cut down the middle, or something like that.
February 1st, 2007 at 1:37 am
I don’t know if i necessarily agree, but i will agree the dualshock 2 is not anywhere near the best and is, really, quite overrated. I think my personal favorite would be either the Japanese-style Xbox controller (the “fixed” one) or the Dreamcast(!) controller.
For the analog stick, i’ll just say that for Gran Turismo 4 it does not work very well. I don’t care whose fault this is. The “map” for movement->steering appears to be some sort of extremely logarithmic madness. There’s a very small space between “almost no turn” and “nearly maximum turn”. My brother, for instance, insists on using the d-pad instead because (he claims) it gives him more control. I’m not sure he’s wrong, although i still prefer the stick myself. Honestly, though, you get more fine-grained control out of L1 (which i use for throttle) or “square” (which i use for brake) than the analog stick. No joke.
And then there’s always the possibility (i use the word loosely, here) of using the analog stick for fighting games. Trying to use it in, ie, Capcom vs. SNK 2 results in hilarity. Since someone insisted the base should be perfectly circular, there’s no way to “feel” which direction the stick is pointed except in relation to your hand position on the controller. Since there is no really good hand position, that means it’s basically impossible. For me, at least. Maybe someone with the ludicrous patience levels required would be able to pull it off.
The most depressing thing about the d-pad on the dualshock is that if you crack the thing open and pull it apart you can see just HOW MUCH BETTER it could have been, had they bothered. But instead, they didn’t.
February 3rd, 2007 at 9:03 am
Wow, I feel like I’m the only one here who doesn’t have trouble playing fighting games on the PS controller.
March 30th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Worst D-pad ever: the Xbox 360’s controller.
Try pressing “up” ten times in a row. 3/10 times you will go “up-right” or “up-left”. I hate that rocker.
April 2nd, 2007 at 10:57 am
Uhh…the dual shock had one of the best D-pads by a first party company, starting from the days of fighting games.
The #1 worst of all time ever is the Gamecube one. You simply can’t deny that and if you do…then you’ve got problems.
#2 is definitely the 360 pad…just cmon. The controller is solid outside that. But it’s still a pretty terrible D pad.
#3 is the SNES pad. Have fun trying to pull off a shoryuken when there’s no frickin diagonals. At least the PS3 version makes it easy to hit the 4 secondary directions.
#4 is the N64. It’d be ahead of the SNES, but the N64 just didn’t have any fighting games.
#5 is the Genesis pad. You could definitely pull off whatever moves you wanted on command. Problem is that if you play past ten minutes you’re hitting the D-pad with bone.
But Sirlin…you can’t honestly be trying to make the case that FPSs aren’t equal to (though typically better) than a console version in almost all cases.
November 7th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Well, for me, the DS controller is the best.
d-pad: Perfect! A few days ago I got a PC controler with diagonals and is very anoying to press forward and instead JUMP forward. With the DS controller I never had this problem.
shouder buttons: Well, using one finger to press only 2 shouder buttons is 100x better than pressing 6(!) face buttons using only 1 finger! Also, if the need arises, you can also use your medium finger in case you need to press 2 shouder buttons at the same time(same side)
I think maybe you like that 8-pad because you’re used to play fighting games on arcade, with your right rand palm’s down and using 3 fingers on the weak/medium/srong buttons, so that controller would be the same as the arcade(exept the d-pad of course)
Anyway, this is my first post here and I fust wanna say I read almost all your articles and you’re right about everything you say (exept this article lol)
Ah, and I learned english (I’m from Brazil) playing videogames so, sorry for my bad grammar XD
And some people still say games are useless, so many things you can learn from them!
November 8th, 2007 at 12:35 am
I agree that the 360’s D-pad is awful. I played Puzzle Fighter HD for the first time this weekend and had a hell of a time getting consistent control from the D-pad. Pressing up for a quick drop would sometimes result in the piece moving over a column and totally screwing up my crash gem break. The analog stick actually gave me more consistent control, which I didn’t imagine would be possible (until seeing how clumsy the D-pad was). I don’t know if there are other, better 360 controllers, but this was the wireless one.
Playing a grid-based puzzle game with an analog stick just didn’t feel right either, though. I never had these sorts of D-pad problems playing Tetris Attack or Pokemon Puzzle League on the SNES and N64. Blah. Depressing.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:04 am
I’ve been told there’s a design flaw in the 360’s D-pad. Essentially, when you press a direction, the body of the d-pad will actually make contact with the surface of the controller before it’s all the way pressed down, and that causes it to sort of slide to the side unless you’re holding it perfectly straight.
You can actually fix it by sanding down the “well” that the d-pad sits in… I’ve seen instructions listed on several forums for how to take it apart and go throught procedure. I’ve been told it really does make it about 100% better… but I decided it was easier to just use the analog stick for everything, personally.
December 1st, 2007 at 9:18 am
Dual shock is the worst, not because the controls don’t work, but because it’s the most uncomfortable piece of shit I’ve ever held! Other than actual feces, that is.
The Gamecube controller is by far the best and most comfortable. It conforms to hands perfectly, it has those kickass shoulder buttons that respond to pressure (don’t forget about the Z shoulder [yes folks thats two shoulder buttons on the right side]). The four face buttons: A,B,X,Y are all easy to press in combinations, and the sheer size of the A button (as the main button being pressed in every game) is a very impressive - and effective! - design.
The C-Stick, in my opinion, is the best right analog of all time. Since it is used for actions when one would quickly take their thumb off the face buttons, the small size and lack of ‘hat’ make it easy to access. The problem I find on the dual shock and xbox controllers is I can’t find a happy place for my thumb to rest. On the small C-Stick that is never a problem. It feels natural to move a nub that is the size of a face button.
The final reason the Gamecube controller is the best is the octagonal walls in the joystick areas. This gives some very positive feedback about which direction is being pressed; you never have to hope that you are pushing straight forward, back or any of the 8 directions, the controller tells you!
O.K. the D-Pad is too small, but thats only a problem in fighting games.
December 1st, 2007 at 1:47 pm
No…no…the Cube controller was like you were holding two remotes in each hand, but unlike the Wii, you weren’t. The weird “handles” sticking out the side/bottom made it so the you pretty much were playing the game like you were typing on a keyboard. Everything is done entirely with your fingertips. It forces your hands to be parallel to eachother, which is both annoying and lacks functionality. The buttons lack functionality in games that would call you to push multiple buttons at once, especially X and B. The right stick simply isn’t good…in FPSs, it doesn’t feel good and it hurts your thumb if you play for a long time (and isn’t playing Call of Duty: Big Red One painful enough?”). The Z button is akwardly-placed, so if you need to quickly press R then Z like in, say, Smash Bros Melee, then you’re going to throw up a shield, and by the time the recovery is passed, your chance to throw is gone.
The octagonal gate for the sticks is good, though. It isn’t used very often, however. Too bad the left stick gets worn out quickly.
In terms of durability, the Cube controller is just not good. Not as bad as the N64, but I’m a few Cube controllers deep already.
The Dual Shock isn’t uncomfortable to hold, though. Really, no controller has been “uncomfortable” in years. The only controller that would fall under that category would be the NES controller.
February 25th, 2008 at 8:00 am
I agree with most of the article, but the complaints about the multiple shoulder buttons being in an “inconvenient place” rang false with me. I don’t know what shape your hands are, but when I hold the controller, the place where my index fingers happen to rest naturally is right *between* the shoulder buttons. I can press either or both shoulder button on either side with just a roll or a squeeze of the finger.
February 25th, 2008 at 10:06 am
I never saw a good reason to put a second analog stick on a controller. The first analog stick is okay for movement (not for controlling velocity, but for controlling direction), but the second one always ends up being used for something involving pointing (camera control, aiming, etc). Pointing is *not* intuitive nor precise on an analog stick.
Awhile ago, I saw a prototype for some PS2 controller that had a trackball in place of the right analog stick. I wanted that controller for my PC, but for some reason it never reached fruition. I figured at the time that the next gen consoles would use a trackball… but Nintendo was the only company to address the fact that many games benefit from good pointing (shooters, RTS’s, RPG’s, etc), and that one analog stick is enough. Sony and Microsoft were happy with the mediocre status quo though (especially Sony, who hasn’t changed their controller design since the PS1).
February 26th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Katamari Damacy makes good use of two analog sticks.