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	<title>Comments on: GDC 2007, Day 3</title>
	<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/</link>
	<description>A game designer's eye view of things</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1</generator>

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		<title>by: jevaextexulge</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-79186</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-79186</guid>
					<description>I’ve got an Amazon gift certificate burning holes in my pocket, 
and I want to get the most bang for my buck. 
 
Enter the Secret Amazon Web Pages: 
 
http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html 
[url=http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html]Amazon Secret Web Pages[/url] 
 
This is where you’re going to find the &quot;latest sales, rebates, and limited-time offers&quot; from 
Amazon, and you can score some pretty deep discounts if you’re a savvy shopper. 
 
Next, there’s the special Sale link. This is open every Friday, and ONLY on Fridays. 
 
You can find the same good discounts here as you would in hidden Deals, although some 
Fridays you can really get lucky and make off like an Amazon bandit - I’ve seen discounts 
there as low as 75% off sticker price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve got an Amazon gift certificate burning holes in my pocket,<br />
and I want to get the most bang for my buck. </p>
<p>Enter the Secret Amazon Web Pages: </p>
<p><a href='http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html' rel='nofollow'>http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html</a><br />
[url=http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html]Amazon Secret Web Pages[/url] </p>
<p>This is where you’re going to find the &#8220;latest sales, rebates, and limited-time offers&#8221; from<br />
Amazon, and you can score some pretty deep discounts if you’re a savvy shopper. </p>
<p>Next, there’s the special Sale link. This is open every Friday, and ONLY on Fridays. </p>
<p>You can find the same good discounts here as you would in hidden Deals, although some<br />
Fridays you can really get lucky and make off like an Amazon bandit - I’ve seen discounts<br />
there as low as 75% off sticker price.
</p>
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		<title>by: amigippinty</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-74512</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-74512</guid>
					<description>There's some special secret Sale link on Amazon, EBay, etc. where you can find very good discounts: 
 
http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html 
[url=http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html]Bargains Hunter[/url] 
 
I've seen discounts there as low as 75% off sticker Price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s some special secret Sale link on Amazon, EBay, etc. where you can find very good discounts: </p>
<p><a href='http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html' rel='nofollow'>http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html</a><br />
[url=http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-find-bargains-at-amazons-secret.html]Bargains Hunter[/url] </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen discounts there as low as 75% off sticker Price.
</p>
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		<title>by: lukescp</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-43783</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 05:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-43783</guid>
					<description>Kicks:

&quot;In this game you were a fish and you swam around in a 2D space, avoiding predators and preying on those smaller than you. Each level had you take on the role of a different fish or sea creature.&quot;

Are you thinking of the game Odell Down Under, perhaps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kicks:</p>
<p>&#8220;In this game you were a fish and you swam around in a 2D space, avoiding predators and preying on those smaller than you. Each level had you take on the role of a different fish or sea creature.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you thinking of the game Odell Down Under, perhaps?
</p>
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		<title>by: Grand Text Auto &#187; GDC 2007 Recap</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-41457</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-41457</guid>
					<description>[...] I&amp;#8217;ll start with the (sadly) long list of talks I missed:  the Game Design Challenge: Needle-and-Thread, Chaim Gingold on Spore&amp;#8217;s Magic Crayons, Clint Hocking&amp;#8217;s talk on Exploration From Systems to Spaces to Self, Raph Koster&amp;#8217;s talk on Web 2.0 meets games, the star-studded gameshow Metagame: Battle of Videogame Smarts, the Sony keynote and the subsequent talk on Sony&amp;#8217;s new indie-ish game Little Big Planet. I missed over half of the Indie Game Summit including Jon Blow&amp;#8217;s Braid talk which sounded great, Eric Z&amp;#8217;s talk and the final panel; much of the Casual Games Summit and most of the Serious Games Summit (note, all three summits were happening at the same time in different buildings, so no one person could see them all.) I also missed Nuances of Design: An Experiment in Visceral Communication, where everyone in the audience use laptops to simultaneously play the games being discussed, Sharing Control, about user-created content, and the big award ceremony. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I&#8217;ll start with the (sadly) long list of talks I missed:  the Game Design Challenge: Needle-and-Thread, Chaim Gingold on Spore&#8217;s Magic Crayons, Clint Hocking&#8217;s talk on Exploration From Systems to Spaces to Self, Raph Koster&#8217;s talk on Web 2.0 meets games, the star-studded gameshow Metagame: Battle of Videogame Smarts, the Sony keynote and the subsequent talk on Sony&#8217;s new indie-ish game Little Big Planet. I missed over half of the Indie Game Summit including Jon Blow&#8217;s Braid talk which sounded great, Eric Z&#8217;s talk and the final panel; much of the Casual Games Summit and most of the Serious Games Summit (note, all three summits were happening at the same time in different buildings, so no one person could see them all.) I also missed Nuances of Design: An Experiment in Visceral Communication, where everyone in the audience use laptops to simultaneously play the games being discussed, Sharing Control, about user-created content, and the big award ceremony. [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: Kicks</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-41026</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-41026</guid>
					<description>I posted a thread here a while ago about comparing Civilization to Metal Gear... noone responded, but the concept had to do with decision making in regards to your position. In civilization I have no qualms raiding a city and killing thousands as long as I can take it over (though I must say i'm better than my gradeschool self who would nuke everything). In MGS I found it difficult to kill an enemy because I was right up in the action. Particularly if you tranqued a guard, then shot and killed him he would shake and twitch and it made me sick to my stomach. I felt awful doing it. (on the other hand, my friend wrote his name in Fatman's blood on the helipad by dragging his bleeding corpse)
So I wonder if the social response is really the important part. 
The idea, I think, has a lot to do with suspending your disbelief and the game to engage certain aspects of it. What was stated about 'making them care' is obviously important... but it makes me wonder still if it has a lot to do with the gamer. Like if you like chick flics or not. Or will moral games be more of a statement in that the player shows their colors. Maybe something like this will happen...
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/07</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted a thread here a while ago about comparing Civilization to Metal Gear&#8230; noone responded, but the concept had to do with decision making in regards to your position. In civilization I have no qualms raiding a city and killing thousands as long as I can take it over (though I must say i&#8217;m better than my gradeschool self who would nuke everything). In MGS I found it difficult to kill an enemy because I was right up in the action. Particularly if you tranqued a guard, then shot and killed him he would shake and twitch and it made me sick to my stomach. I felt awful doing it. (on the other hand, my friend wrote his name in Fatman&#8217;s blood on the helipad by dragging his bleeding corpse)<br />
So I wonder if the social response is really the important part.<br />
The idea, I think, has a lot to do with suspending your disbelief and the game to engage certain aspects of it. What was stated about &#8216;making them care&#8217; is obviously important&#8230; but it makes me wonder still if it has a lot to do with the gamer. Like if you like chick flics or not. Or will moral games be more of a statement in that the player shows their colors. Maybe something like this will happen&#8230;<br />
<a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/07' rel='nofollow'>http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/07</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Paul Christiano</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40966</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 01:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40966</guid>
					<description>It seems difficult to create real moral dilemmas without a world that really responds to the player, instead of just throwing them into one path or another depending on which they choose (not unlike a Choose Your Own Adventure book). By this I do not mean that creating the situation is hard, I mean that getting them to actually care is hard (and you end up with the mentality you describe). We are very good at making the physics of the game to respond realistically to a player, but right now to me it seems like there is no social response whatever, much less a realistic one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems difficult to create real moral dilemmas without a world that really responds to the player, instead of just throwing them into one path or another depending on which they choose (not unlike a Choose Your Own Adventure book). By this I do not mean that creating the situation is hard, I mean that getting them to actually care is hard (and you end up with the mentality you describe). We are very good at making the physics of the game to respond realistically to a player, but right now to me it seems like there is no social response whatever, much less a realistic one.
</p>
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		<title>by: KTallguy/Kenan</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40926</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40926</guid>
					<description>Shame we didn't run into each other at the conference!

Thanks a lot for these notes, there were quite a few panels that I wanted to go to but was unable to, and this summery makes me feel like I was practically there.

I did attend the exploration one, and found it very interesting. Creating real moral dilemmas for seasoned players seems like such a daunting task, because they are so used to approaching games with a &quot;where can I get the most points or see the coolest stuff&quot; mentality. It seems like the only way to avoid this is to make these moral decisions not really effect the gameplay in a concrete way. But how to subtly communicate these moral dilemmas is still quite difficult...although I have a few ideas.

Anyway, thanks for the informative post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shame we didn&#8217;t run into each other at the conference!</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for these notes, there were quite a few panels that I wanted to go to but was unable to, and this summery makes me feel like I was practically there.</p>
<p>I did attend the exploration one, and found it very interesting. Creating real moral dilemmas for seasoned players seems like such a daunting task, because they are so used to approaching games with a &#8220;where can I get the most points or see the coolest stuff&#8221; mentality. It seems like the only way to avoid this is to make these moral decisions not really effect the gameplay in a concrete way. But how to subtly communicate these moral dilemmas is still quite difficult&#8230;although I have a few ideas.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for the informative post.
</p>
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		<title>by: Chadius</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40917</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40917</guid>
					<description>I wants more 2D games!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wants more 2D games!
</p>
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		<title>by: O2 Bazaar &#124; GDC 2007, Day 3</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40879</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40879</guid>
					<description>[...] Original post by Sirlin.net &amp;#226;?? Your source of shocking insights on game d&amp;#8230; and software by Elliott Back           Thank you for reading this post. You can now Leave A Comment (0) or Leave A Trackback. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Original post by Sirlin.net &acirc;?? Your source of shocking insights on game d&#8230; and software by Elliott Back           Thank you for reading this post. You can now Leave A Comment (0) or Leave A Trackback. [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: Kicks</title>
		<link>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40872</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sirlin.net/archive/gdc-2007-day-3/#comment-40872</guid>
					<description>(Crud... i forgot)
PS
Along the lines of FarCry I and anyone who's played any game wishes they could just remove the game part and set Mario loose on the maps/levels/terrain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Crud&#8230; i forgot)<br />
PS<br />
Along the lines of FarCry I and anyone who&#8217;s played any game wishes they could just remove the game part and set Mario loose on the maps/levels/terrain.
</p>
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