Not that anyone reads two month old blog responses, lol.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2008/03/11/the-cory-barlog-interview-part-i.aspx

http://criminalcrackdown.blogspot.com/2008/03/saw-two-things-today-that-got-me.html

BTW, since the last time I posted concerning GRGM LGC production models, and proclaimed that these alternative structures will become ever more present over the next five years, I have attended GDC 2008 which has strengthened this resolve. The writing is on the wall. I’ve got a list of companies that I’ve been compiling that just keeps on getting larger, all of whom are perusing or have successfully pursued similar, though varying, models.

Don’t let Grassroots Gamemaster’s affinity for prima donnas interfere with the strength of his ideas. This is a personal preference, not a vital component of the Lottery Game Company (LGC).

James M: “The way to make it happen is to come up with a good proposal and a workable plan, which means identifying the weak points and improving upon them — something you’ve ruled out from the start.”

Nobody’s ruling that out. This is, however, the wrong time to demand a plan from GRGM. He’s not ready.
If he was, I’m sure he wouldn’t wait to tell anyone.
Let him work. Let him breathe a little. It’s not going to cost you anything.

Grassroots Gamemaster:
“You say that one can be a methodical engineer (like a programmer) on the one hand, and yet have a brilliant insight on human feelings, know how to write good dialogue, and have a sense of spontaneity and fun (like a game designer) on the other. However, history doesn’t bear this out.”

History does bear it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath
That’s a short list of extraordinary individuals, and there have been many, many more who never achieved that level of notoriety. Think of people in your life who are technically, creatively, and emotionally competent. Where these qualities exist, one does not come at the expense of others: instead, they reinforce each other synergistically.

P.S:
Clarissa: “And I thought guys were dumb!”
Some are, but others probably enjoy Clarissa Explains It All for the same reason I did.

I agree there isn’t.

But come to think of it, THQ saw ‘de Blob’ at a student show and bought the rights to have developed by one of its internal studios.

Another is to remember that noone expects the next Halo or w/e to come out of this system. We don’t necessarily have to be talking about multi-million dollar production values, just something that’s high quality enough that it will be able to sell. With some of the cheaper distribution methods like XBL and Steam, there’s definitely a market out there for small but extremely original titles. Just something to keep in mind.

Not trying to disagree with you or anything, ArC, I think you make a number of valid points.

OK, so still with the Hollywood analogy: in today’s world, game designers are all combination writer-directors. That is, they both come up with the concept (or sometimes have it handed to them by execs, but then again, I kid you not, the idea for “Lost” came from the execs, not the writers) and they execute it through pre-production, production, etc.

And in Hollywood, anyone can write a script with no more investment than one’s own time. Some of those even get picked up and turned into real movies. But I don’t think anyone ever gets to be a _director_, even of something they wrote themselves, without paying some dues. A director is responsible for a multi-million dollar project.

So bringing it back to our industry: who’s going to fund a no-track-record designer? No one. Anyone can be a designer who has a good idea — the ‘writer’ in the analogy. He could even come up with a great design doc. But can he get a prototype made? (which I’m going to call the analogue to ’short films’.) The Portal team did it in school, which is certainly helpful — everyone’s building a resume there, not needing to get paid.

So, I dunno. Basically it comes down to a revolution as large as the overthrow of the studio system in Hollywood… but that started with an antitrust suit. Otherwise, I don’t see what’s in it for publishers to take flyers on unproven designers with unproven ideas when they have in-house devs that can generate (relatively) lower-risk profits.

And as Forty wrote up in comment 12, it’s not like we’re really facing a complete creative wasteland right now anyways.

Man, you’re dense, James M. GrGm just said it in his last post: “I’m not interested in making yet another first-person-shooter, but this time with a new gimmick attached. I want to do fundamentally different games. Since I see that the industry is not set up to foster this[…]”

All he wants is to create an accepted industry model for fostering the ideas of developers who haven’t either a) spent 12+ years making FPSes to earn some street cred, or b) struck out completely on there own, and founded their own company.

Technical people are not involved. The designer says how a game should be played, the art guy says how a game should look, the technical guy just makes the game they told him to make. There is cross-over, but it’s still not relevant. GrGm’s company doesn’t need to ever directly higher technical people for the sake of their technical skills, they outsource their game to companies that hire technical people… they might occasionally benefit from getting designers who can do more prototyping than just pen and paper, but even that’s not relevant to the point you’re trying to make, because those people are still designers.

I love how you’re ranting about GrGm’s dichotomy between creative/analytical people, and then turn around and create you’re own dichotomy between designers/engineers. I’m sorry, but even though you meant it rhetorically, the answer is that yes, there are some engineers that just want to create “shiny graphics”. The best guy in the world at writing shaders, is going to continue writing cool shaders because that’s what he likes to do. And if they look good, then yes, a current production company will use them. A designer cannot create some extra game designs on the side and even expect to get his own company to glance at them… that’s why designers are worse off than engineers.

(”I’m going to be the bigger man and stop arguing with Claytus. I’m sure it’s annoying to everyone.” - HAHAHA… I doubt that’s even possible, but for the sake of argument, why did you feel the need to tell me this, instead of, maybe, just not posting anymore… I’ve even suggested it in the past.)