My Performance at Evolution North 2007
The short version
- I got 2nd in the Street Fighter Alpha 2 tournament (part of Midwest Championships, not Evolution), somehow losing to Justin Wong
- I go 2nd in ST (Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo), losing twice to Jason Cole.
- I did not qualify in Guilty Gear, though I did beat entire teams with just my Chipp.
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Even though I haven't played this game in many years, it was still my tournament to win. I know more about the game than anyone else there, have more experience in it than anyone there, and I was pretty solidly one of the 3 best US players back in the day. Both Jeron and Flash G are solid though, somehow knowing how to play A2 (though I wonder how they know, ha). Each of them remind me about a concept I don't really have a name for--maybe "tournament intensity." They are both serious competitors who make good decisions during tournament play. Even when they are out of their element in a game I know they don't know 100%, they still make good decisions and eke out every advantage they can.
Justin Wong has that same tournament intensity, and he's even more intense. I saw Justin play Ken, Rose, and some 3rd character (I think) during the tournament. He seemed to know just enough to get by. I figured he would play Rose against me and he did (maybe he even picked first, I forget). I picked Zangief to counter. Maybe it was my years of zero practice, or maybe it was Justin's "tournament intensity," but he destroyed me in that match. He demonstrated that he knew to counter jump-ins, which is really the main problem for Rose in that match. It was absolutely a testament to "time does not equal skill." Justin has probably played Alpha 2 about 1% as much as me, considering I played it for at least 3 years about every other day and he played it, well, almost never. And yet armed with only meager knowledge about a few important counters, he kept his head about him, turned up his tournament intensity, and was able to beat me.
Oh yeah, after game 1, I abandoned Zangief and went for Rose vs. Rose. I demonstrated that my secret low strong tactics can usually hit other people's low strongs. Rose vs. Rose is a game of doing only a few moves most of the time, with a couple random occasional things thrown in. I had the lead in games, but Justin was able to come back, mostly because he knew a little better when to do nothing and when to do the occasional strange thing.
Incidentally, my other loss in A2 was to NKI. He knows almost nothing about A2 either, but he fakes it very well. He played Rolento using A3 tactics (or CvS2?) in order to fake general proficiency. That's cute and all, but not nearly enough to win. He won by dancing around long enough to land Rolento's deadly custom-combo. Every time he activated it, he hit me with it. I think he learned this from A-Groove in CvS2, but he certainly didn't learn it by playing A2. Again, time spent playing A2 is most definitely not the major factor in whether a player can win.
If anyone is curious, I hardly played Rose at all during this tournament. I played Ryu almost the whole way through.
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo
There were a number of good players at the event, including Jessie Howard, Wes Truelson(sp?), NKI, Jason Cole, Flash G, Jeron, and Darkside Phil (DSP) to name a few. Again, Flash G and Jeron showed their "tournament intensity" and gave me hard matches. They are able to "keep their heads about them" under pressure, but I was able to beat them, possibly more through super knowledge of ST nuances, though maybe I do have some impromptu ability of my own, shrug.
Facing NKI was a somewhat daunting because he beat me at Evolution two years ago (maybe I lost to him last year too, I don't know). I remember when NKI didn't know the first thing about ST and I could beat him without even trying. He devoted himself to the game, lived in Japan for a while, practicing often, and finally came of age when he beat me in a tournament two years ago. You can't really think about stuff like when you step up to play, and I managed not to. I used Vega (claw) to beat his Chun Li. His Chun Li is very solid, but cheapy wall-dive proved superior that day.
I lost only to Jason Cole and then again to Cole in the grand finals. I got noogied about 100 times by his Dhalsim. The finals score was 2-3 in his favor, so it was close, but his noogies proved greater than my wall-dives. Incidentally, Cole--who used to have quite a temper--has a different type of tournament demeanor altogether compared to Justin Wong and his crew. Cole doesn't seem that intense. Maybe "relaxed" is the better word. He seems to just let the right choice flow through him. Usually patient, and aggressive when he has to be. Cole likes to talk a lot about 'clutch' (the ability to really seal the deal under the final moment under the highest pressure) and he certainly has it in spades.
Guilty Gear Slash
I got jerked around by a few possible teams I could join, then decided to ahead with my original plan of playing alone. That means I'd have to beat 3 people in a row without losing one game to advance each time. Literally 10 seconds before my first match, RashReflection asked if he could join my team, and I said ok. I was--well--the main force on the team though. I defeated a couple teams all by myself. Against one team, I beat their first two members myself, then faced a potemkin player as the third (I was Chipp! Ouch!). After grinding this guy down with like 100 hits, I got him down to 2 pixels, and got hit by a low counter-hit low fierce. GG, Chipp dies. I was a pixels away from eliminating that entire team with Chipp...and they went on to get 3rd I think. Ugh, ugh.
Yeah, I hate the Curse of Chipp. I practiced Potemkin and Faust against random people ahead of time, and realized how many holes I have with them compared to Chipp. My practice matches with Chipp were like 10% me losing in one hit and 90% me completely owning, so I decided to go with him for the tournament after all. Maybe I should learn Millia in GG Accent Core. She always seemed like a non-sucky Chipp to me, but I could never get the hang of her at all. Anyway, I did not qualify in GGXX. Hopefully I'll have a real team for Evo West.
--Sirlin
June 25th, 2007 at 11:47 am
[…] Original post by Sirlin […]
June 25th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
I seem to remember NKI mentioning that A2 was his first serious SF game? I know he’s made plenty of combo videos for it at least - not that that means much re: high-level competitive ability.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:34 am
Hey David, this is Kenji. Congrats on your placement in ST/ A3. I was going to head up to Chi-town for the Slash qualifiers but was kept busy with freelance. Great to hear your on top of your game along with work. Hope to see you playing AC! laters.
June 26th, 2007 at 1:41 am
Congratulations on your dual runner-up status. I know actually winning would be far more satisfying, but doing that well in two games is far from crap.
What’s the deal with the AI in SSF2T, anyway? Why is it set to “prison rape” level no matter how low I set it? Yes, I realize I’m horrible at the game since I never devoted my life to becoming a Street Fighter robot, but it’d be nice to at least have one setting where the computer isn’t cheap and unforgiving. :(
June 26th, 2007 at 3:46 am
Hello Sirlin! My name’s Mark and I was playing ST with you guys on Sat night at Nickel City. I have been a huge ST fan for years, but have never had anyone to play it with so I drove to Chicago just to play someone. Little did I know my scrubby ass was going to have the opportunity to play casuals with you and the other great players that were there! I learned a lot and from watching you and consider it a great honor! Thanks for unknowingly helping me have the best first SF event experience ever. I’m gonna read Gamepro and collect some protips to beat you next year, lol.
Thanks!
June 26th, 2007 at 3:47 am
Hello Sirlin! My name’s Mark and I was playing ST with you guys on Sat night at Nickel City. I have been a huge ST fan for years, but have never had anyone to play it with so I drove to Chicago from Kentucky just to play someone. Little did I know my scrubby ass was going to have the opportunity to play casuals with you and the other great players that were there! I learned a lot and from watching you and consider it a great honor! Thanks for unknowingly helping me have the best first SF event experience ever. I’m gonna read Gamepro and collect some protips to beat you next year, lol.
Thanks!
June 26th, 2007 at 6:16 am
sweet, nice job on the runner-up spots.
June 26th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Are there going to be videos of the Midwest Championships?
June 30th, 2007 at 1:53 am
Hitaro, I don’t think anyone recorded much. Not AE, ST, and A2, at least.
June 30th, 2007 at 8:12 am
Good goings. And yes the curse of chipp is really sad indeed, and my chipp also lost to pot in a tourney. Better luck next time
July 1st, 2007 at 4:08 am
It was good to meet you at Evo North, Sirlin, and hopefully you’ll give me a few games of ST at Evo World, which I now have my ticket for. I managed to tie Jeron for 7th, and i was actually down on myself about it… saying things like ‘i got lucky bracketing’ and ‘wilson, sabre, and seth didnt even enter’. However, after reading Seth’s articles on having the right mindset, I realize that he is right. Luck is a big part of every tournament and when it goes my way, I should be happy.
And thanks for thinking of us colorblind when putting Puzzle Fighter HD together. I truly and deeply appreciate that.
July 2nd, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Good job on top spots in AE and ST. This is off topic but what are Hyper Fighting Ryu’s serious advantages over CE Ryu. I use the HF version myself in AE but some people argue that the CE version is better.
July 2nd, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Good job on top spots in both AE and ST Sirlin. This is off topic but for what reasons is Hyper Fighting Ryu better than the CE version. I like the HF version myself, but besides the air hurricane kick what are his other advantages? Thanks.
July 3rd, 2007 at 8:40 am
yo sirlin, I know DOA4 wasn’t in this year, but what do u think about that game?
July 9th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
JUSTIN WONG > OLD SCHOOL
July 12th, 2007 at 3:06 am
Rin Tin: CE Ryu does more damage. I prefer HF Ryu because his helicopter kick is unfairly good, with practically not startup or recovery and able to go through fireballs much easier. Even moreso, I prefer not playing AE because CE Bison is stupid.
someguy: DOA4 is a better game than most people give it credit for. That said, it’s kinda low on variety. I had fun with it for a while, but I went back to Guilty Gear. As for it not being in Evolution, we gave plenty of notice that if the DOA community wanted to become part of Evolution, they had to actually come to the event. I ran the Evo East DOA4 tournament myself. 9 entries. Ouch.
–Sirlin
July 16th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Evoeast had 30 entries last you sirlin, you are mistaken with EVO west. Nonetheless one of the evo’s had 9 entries.
July 24th, 2007 at 3:41 am
Sirlin, it was fun getting to play in the team tourney with ya, you put up a hell of a fight! Hopefully we can get some games in at Vegas, I actually own AC now and don’t suck. =P
I was only mildly surprised that Justin beat you in the mirror match, honestly - A2 Rose is a perfect fit for his skillset. And as hungry as he is, he could pull it off vs. Valle or Choi even…
Many congrats on 2nd in ST! As I recall, this was the smallest turnout MWC’s ever had for ST, but probably the most talent, so that’s quite impressive!
You’ll really be in a tough spot for AC now, as Chipp is weaker than in Slash. Millia is damn good, like probably just outside of top 5, but her combos are some of the hardest in the game. The answer may be Potemkin - better and scrubbier than ever before!
Good luck at West & Vegas,
Josh.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Oh, also, you’re not gonna like this…but get used to more team tournaments. It is THE most popular format in Japan, and American players seem to love it as well.
If you look at SBO, for example, the “main events” are all 3-on-3: Guilty Gear, Virtua Fighter, 3rd Strike, and Tekken. Then the “mid-tier” games are 2-on-2: Melty Blood and SF2:AE. And the least popular titles are singles: Arcana Heart, Soul Calibur III, and King of Fighters ‘98. This is the case every year.
The popular Gamer’s Vision ranking battles for 3s and Tekken always used to be singles, but switched to 3-on-3 late last year. And the biggest GGXX event in Japan (after SBO) is, I kid you not, an “East Coast vs. West Coast” 23-on-23: One player for each character in the game!
So, why is this the case, and why might this trend continue to grow? I would suggest the following:
1. After spending some time in the fighting-game scene, most people develop a sort of tribal loyalty, usually to a small group of friends or a region. The team format plays right into this and creates natural “grudge matches” which can sometimes happen in the actual tournament (as opposed to just pre-arranged money matches).
2. Because of the above, it’s much easier to build hype and a storyline this way - people can instantly get emotionally involved in “East Coast vs. West Coast”, which won’t happen for “two guys you’ve never heard of argued on the internet”. Why do you think pro sports use teams identified with cities?
3. Teams sometimes add & drop members or break up outright. People like drama, and this adds an extra bit of it that you won’t get from singles events.
4. SBO and every American team tourney I have seen use a rule where you cannot have two of the same character on a team. This makes the final 4 or 8 far more exciting for the spectator, as a greater variety of characters & players come into play on the big stage. Remember 3rd Strike at Evolution last year, with the hundreds of sleep-inducing Yun vs. Yun battles in the top 8? Watch the top 4 of any big Japanese team tournament, and you almost won’t believe it’s the same game.
5. With only 1 game, this format is more volatile than the traditional American 2/3 games. And people absolutely *love* volatility and upsets. Nobody cares about college basketball during the regular season, but March Madness is a national event precisely *because* it is the biggest crapshoot in all of American sports - there are always a bunch of likable underdogs, and at least one of them ends up making a serious run. Of all sports leagues, the NFL is far and away the most popular…and guess what, it’s also the most random from year to year.
And finally…
6. It’s cheaper for the tournament staff. Obvious, as this is the whole reason GGXX switched to teams in the first place, but still worth mentioning.
Not a guarantee that this will catch on in the US like it has in Japan, but I’m just saying that you shouldn’t be shocked if it does…
Thanks,
Josh.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
We’ll just have to disagree. Team tournaments are garbage tournaments that should only happen “for fun” alongside a real tournament. Japanese love single elim, too, but that’s not an argument that logically concludes with US tournaments being single elim. Also, switching characters is more interesting than not switching. I regularly played three different characters in SFA2 tournaments, and a special fourth against Alex Valle only. Being forced to stick with one is boring for everyone involved.
Please don’t let the team tournament rhetoric spread. If the players view it as “not real” then Evolution will hold as few as possible.
–Sirlin
August 15th, 2007 at 3:54 am
The reason that I don’t like team tournaments is the same reason that wrestling is my favourite sport, and not soccer. It is the reason I prefer fighting games to Counter-Strike or World of Warcraft. The reason is because I don’t like to rely on other people.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a very extroverted and sociable person, but when it comes to competition, I like it to be just 1 on 1. The reason for this is very simple: whether I win or lose, I know that I, and I alone am to blame. When I play soccer, which is another sport I enjoy, if I lose, it simply KILLS me that the reason for this may not have been my play, but the play of others. I could be going 100% and playing at the top of my game, but it means shit if the rest of my team doesn’t do the same. In wrestling or Street Fighter, when I lose there’s no shifting the blame. I should have sprawled sooner when I saw him going for a double-leg shot, I need to get my hands lower to pull off a clean gut wrench, I need to work on my timing of reversal DPs, I need to perfect my crossup j.hk, c.mp, c.lk xx fireball execution.
When you take a 1v1 game, and force a contrived team system upon it, well… it’s just silly.
August 18th, 2007 at 1:02 am
I really, really do not think “spectator enjoyment” should be that high of a priority for a fighting game tournament. People shouldn’t be going to tournaments to impress people watching, they should be going to try and win.
Saying that a team tourney is more fun to watch is pretty subjective anyway. I’ve seen some good matches in team tourneys, but I always prefer to see 1v1 matches, especially if it’s a set of matches instead of just two or three rounds and it’s done. Longer 1v1 matches better show what a player can do, how well they can adapt, and how well they can notice and correct their own flaws. Ultimately, it better shows which player is actually the better player.
Team matches and single-match-single-elim are more susceptible to random bullshit being the winning tactic, and that’s not a very good indicator of who is the better player. Look at Sirlin’s description of his GG performance. Since he had to only pick one character he picked the one he felt best with, knew what his bad matchups were, tried his best to minimize his liabilities in his bad matchups, but one random move connecting got him and his team eliminated. Random bullshit ultimately won, and that should never be the case.
Sirlin, I feel you on the Curse of Chipp. It took me a while to break it, and I pretty much had to find a Chipp-like character (Millia, actually) to ween me off him before I could get better with anyone else. Why did they have to make Chipp so fun and easy to use but give him the stamina of a paper bag in the rain?