SSF2T HD Remix, Part 6: Cammy
This article is reprinted with permission from Capcom Unity.
Cammy is considered one of the five worst characters in ST (Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo) along with Zangief, Blanka, Fei Long, and T.Hawk. It’s interesting how much better she is now with so few changes, and even one nerf.
Control Motions
Cammy’s Hooligan Throw motion is one of the most frustrating in the game in ST. Not only does it end in up/forward which results in accidental jumping sometimes, but it also closely overlaps the Spinning Backfist command.
New commands:
- Hooligan Throw: quarter circle forward + punch
- Spinning Backfist: quarter circle back + punch
Just the ability to do Cammy’s Hooligan Throw reliably makes her easier to win with. It’s a really good move (but not too good because most characters can just jab her out of it). Cancelling low forward into Hooligan Throw is now easy and pretty effective.
Spinning Backfist
Here’s some trivia about the Spinning Backfist. The very first change I made in the entire game was allowing Cammy’s Spinning Backfist to go through fireballs. All three versions can now do this and she even has lower body invulnerability during this, but her head is completely vulnerable the whole time, so you can smack her with high moves if you know she is going to Spinning Backfist. Her regular full body vulnerability returns, of course, by the time she can actually hit you.
The Spinning Backfist now has a much bigger hitbox on the second hit. After several experiments, this was the most effective way to make sure that the move no longer failed to get the built-in two hits. If you hit the opponent with the first hit of this move, it’s now extremely likely that the second hit will also hit and knock down.
Cannon Drill
Her other change is that her Cannon Drills are now much more safe on block. (Trivia: this is the second change I attempted to make in the game, only weeks later did I finally figure out how to do this one.) In ST, Cannon Drills could be safe on block only from a very particular distance. Now there is much more leeway so with a little knowledge of ranges and which strength to use, you can make this move safe on block every time. Note that as before, it’s very vulnerable at the top so jumping straight up and attacking as you come down is a counter.
The safe Cannon Drill opens up a new world to Cammy. She can now keep the pressure up and do block damage. If the opponent is a little scared, she can mix in a Hooligan Throw and if the opponent is antsy to attack, she can mix in a Cannon Spike (similar to a Dragon Punch.)
Safe Attack into Safe Attack
Cammy stayed in the state I described above for a long time. There has been no question that she’s good, it’s just been a question of whether she’s second tier or has creeped into the top. After playing her quite a bit, two things started to bother me, and they both had the same solution. One is that she’s just incredibly good against Zangief and T.Hawk. She can Cannon Spike anytime she’s within range and force them to block or get hit by her invulnerable move, then she’s completely safe afterwards. It’s abusive, and she doesn’t even need that against them considering her low forward alone is very good against them.
The other problem is that she started to feel a lot like ST Balrog in that she can keep up the pressure (in her case with safe-on-block Cannon Drills), then do a safe-on-block, invulnerable Cannon Spike at any time. That is the exact same sequence that was deemed “too good” for Balrog, but now she had it. I felt uncomfortable with this, so now the Cannon Spike is not completely safe on block. It still bounces her back, but if she does it from too close, T.Hawk is able to counter with an immediate stand roundhouse and Zangief is able to counter with low roundhouse. She can still currently get away with a safe Cannon Spike when she does it from a bit farther though, so we’ll have to keep an eye on this.
The invulnerable, always-safe-on-block Cannon Spike was nice with Cammy, but she’s a more versatile, fair character having a safe-on-block Cannon Drill instead. I think it’s a fair trade, and she’s *still* a strong character. (In the current version, it’s not even much of a trade since Cannon Spike is still safe from most distances.) Cammy can now go toe-to-toe in previously very difficult matches against Ken, Ryu, and Sagat (Spinning Backfist!) and her easier Hooligan Throw and safe Cannon Drill allow her to pressure and deal good block damage to the non-fireball characters, too.
–Sirlin
March 8th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Wow from bottom to maybe top with only two changes? Sounds interesting but I expect that this version might not be the final cut; seems like she could be one of those characters that people only discover the true value of much later in the game’s life. Just the switch to easy command imputes makes a world of difference for her. I can’t wait to see the Fei Long changes HINT HINT HINT.
March 9th, 2008 at 12:40 am
When is the game supposed to come out? I can’t find the release date anywhere.
March 9th, 2008 at 7:36 am
Is the spinning backfist faster? If not it’s hard to imagine going through fireballs effectively with it.
March 11th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Wow, this game is going to be a hot fucking mess! ugh
March 12th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
How would you preform throws here?? please dont tell me the same old way (b/f any hard punch or kick)??
This has been and always will be lame. have it the same as in Alpha or SF3
When can we expect the game release?
March 12th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
b or f+p for throw is a much better command than requiring two buttons. The SF2 series, SFA2, and Guilty Gear are all great examples of this. Changing that would alienate the SF2 fanbase.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
I personally prefer the one-button throw command, but what’s your reasoning for it being objectively better? I’ve given this quite a bit of thought and never really decided one was particularly better than the other, so I’d be interesting to hear your reasoning on that point.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
With one-button throws, you can walk up and throw with two easily separated inputs - or block a big attack and throw just as easily. And if you accidentally throw out the command where you shouldn’t, you won’t get a missed throw animation from full screen. It’s also easily to accidentally throw someone when you’re mashing buttons, increasing the quantity of “Cool Stuff” that happens without knowing any moves. Back and forward are also intuitive ways to tell the game which direction you want to throw someone.
With two-button throws, you can easily map the throw command onto the end of any motion, making it easy and intuitive to create lots of different throws. This is why 3D games use two-button throws. You also have the advantage of a “Throw” macro button on consoles - it’s easier to tell people “Press the left trigger to throw” instead of “Press X+Y.”
I can see the advantages of both methods, but for Street Fighter, moving around and throwing quickly is a much bigger part of the game than choosing the right throw for a given situation, so one-button throws make sense.
March 13th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
no particle effects please on fireballs
they look forced onto the game and take away some of its vintage charm. other than that: awesome!
March 13th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Hi David. Interview with you on SSF2THDR is live on GT. :)
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31832.html
March 14th, 2008 at 1:11 am
Congratulations on dodging Microsoft’s stupid Live size limit:-
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/858/858829p1.html
Hopefully this gives your team more time to concentrate on the important stuff instead of size optimisations, as well as of course meaning the game looks the best it can.
Thanks for the detailed design commentaries; I wish more designers did this kind of thing, because not only is it interesting (and informative for competitive players) but it seems like the actual process of explaining your decisions might help confirm the logic behind them to the benefit of the game. I’m actually looking forward to HD Remix more than SF4, largely because I can see the kind of thought that is going into its design and balance.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:24 am
I love reading in-depth designer insights for games. It’s sad that it’s such a rare occurrence to be able to do so.
The StarCraft 2 devs have been doing a similar sort of thing for their ongoing design process (albeit not as clearly since the information tends to be squirreled away in forum threads), and it really helps a person appreciate both the development process and final product more. It’s a good feeling not having to wonder of the finished game: “why is this unit/character like this?” or “did they ever consider this as a possible balance solution?”
Thanks for writing (and reprinting) these HDR articles.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:40 am
“It’s a good feeling not having to wonder of the finished game: “why is this unit/character like this?” or “did they ever consider this as a possible balance solution?”
Thanks for writing (and reprinting) these HDR articles.”
Quoted for truth.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:09 am
Grumble … Grumble …. Grumble
Please, why not a PC version ?
March 14th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Seconded. I can only buy it if it’s on PC.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:16 am
Random responces. Cammy is a beef master now. I am starting to see the flow of the changes. Make the lower tier characters come up to the middle/top and the middle gets a little mmmmmness here and there and the top gets changed just a little on both ends to make them even. Hey Cammy can spin backfist threw fireballs. That alone was great odens beard full of goodness. What keeps going threw my mind is how the moves being changed and remapped is going to make this learning process all new again. Just seeing the match ups in my head and wondering how it will play out. Fighting game night my house… on release of the game. Your all invited.
March 24th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Can’t wait to see this game. I love the new Cammy… getting around fireballs, better drill, and fixing her too good thrust kick against a couple of characters all makes perfect sense! I’ll be playing the crap out of her. Now, if Fei Long just get similar enough treatment life will be grand!
March 24th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Hmm, while I’m at it, I wonder what Fei Long’s changes would make sense. I see the new QCF+kick for the flying kicks… that should be nice as long as you can cancel low short into his rushing punches without coming out with the accidental flying kicks (just keep holding down short should work). And you can cancel it into the flying kicks if you want, but I imagine the flying kicks should have a much faster start up time for this to be effective. I’d like to see them go through fireballs like Cammy’s backfist, too. He’s jumping roundhouse always screamed “fix me”… if it was more like Ryu’s then it’d be something he could jump in with. The jumping towards + foward or + strong was decent, but tiny range.
The other thing that immediately needs attention, is his very not-invulnerable flame kicks (dragon punch kicks). I bet this will be immediately fixed. After that, I’d address his obvious issues with o.Sagat/Ryu, Dhalsim (impossible), Balrog (99% impossble), Honda (… yeah also impossible), and to a lesser degree Guile. If you aren’t familiar with Fei Long, I’ll go into more detail here:
1. Fireball traps are bad for him. Flying kicks going through fireballs would probably be awesome.
2. Dhalsim’s low strong, standing forward, and other pokes hit him out of everything he can do way too often (95% of the time?). Invulnerable flame kick would help a bit.
3. Balrog can simply pressure him with low rushes and headbutts and win… only at a perfect distance can Fei Long guess right and use a stand fierce to hit (usually trade) with Balrog’s low rush. Then Balrog can just use the turn around punch which equally seems to hit Fei Long out of everything, but at least it isn’t constant and instant. The Balrog changes may help a tiny bit, but I’d be hugely surprised if it was enough.
4. I think Honda’s hands were the main problem plush his general range (standing fierce, low r.house), but I can’t remember the exact deal for some reason. Been a long time. I guess the headbutt hitting Fei Long out of everything doesn’t help. Invulnerable flame kick would help.
5. Guile. Again, it’s the poking game, low forward, that just ruins Fie Long’s day if I recall. I want to say rushing punch (fierce) can hit Guile’s poke in the perfect situation, but probably not very often. If the rushing punch hit the poke reliably, that would be very nice. Does Fei Long’s low forward or low jab hit Guile’s poke? That’d be even better probably.
So in summary, anybody with range sends Fei Long straight to the bottom tier. If he can deal with those, maybe he’ll have a chance. He was always tons of fun to play as a pressure character, it’s just that he couldn’t ever get close to most characters.
March 26th, 2008 at 2:00 am
nice work, sounds promising